1) Surgical techs have no insurance or malpractice only the surgent does and surgical tech pay is the same as LPNs & RNs? True or False

2) Is ST harder than Nursing?

I agree that the Surgical Technology Programs are not as intense as a nursing program, however there are some programs (like the one I went through) that the ST students took the same Anatomy and Physiology class that the student nurses did. They also take courses that are specifically for learning how to prepare instruments, the details of the multitude of sterilization processes, the proper ways to care for the instrumentation as well as what each instrument is used for and why. There  are also classes that teach the actual step-by-step surgical procedures, such as a total joint replacement or open heart surgery and crainiotomies. They also must learn why what suture is used for what purpose, what it's tinsel strength is, absorption rate is, whether it is a braided suture or a monofiliment, etc, etc. Properly trained Surgical Technologists also must have a working knowlege of what medications that are on the surgical field are and how and why they are used.  They are very highly trained individuals. There are programs in this country that offer an Associate Degree in Surgical Technology. That being said: no, Surgical Technologists are not licensed, but if memory serves me correctly AST ( the Association of Surgical Technologists) is very vocal about Surgical Technologists being professionals, like LPN'S/RN'S. As far as malpractice insurance goes- yes, the Surgical Tecnologist works "under" the license of the RN, however, they can still be named in a lawsuit, and as with all RN's, one should always carry one's own liability and malpractice insurance above and beyond what the facility carries. AST and AORN (Association of Operating Room Nurses) offer recommendations for getting that extra insurance.

As a practicing RN in Surgery and having been a Certified Surgical Technologist  and an OR Manager, I can tell you that Surgical Technologists are invaluable. With the nursing shortage being what it is and the number of surgeries on the rise, hiring Surgical Technologists is fiscally important as well as being good patient care. It takes quite a while- up to a year or longer- to train anyone how to scrub effectively in an OR with multi specialties. It makes more sense to hire a Surgical Technologist who has been trained to scrub rather than an RN who has to be trained to scrub on the job. Nursing schools can only touch the surface of the different specialties in the ever expanding nursing profession, so there is no time to adequately train RNs in each specialty. OR's that happen to come upon an RN who can scrub finds an invaluable asset and should snatch that person up. Unfortunately, most facilities do not recognize this nor do they compensate the RN with the extra scrub skills.  I could go on, but I will run out of space. Bowzerkitty  CST, RN, CNOR, RNFA

As a Certified Surgical Tech/Certified First Assistant, I tell everyone who asks me if I'm a nurse, "No. I did't go to school as long as a nurse." But we do have to learn alot! We go in depth into anatomy and each surgery that we have to scrub on. The surgeon expects us to keep up and know what he/she needs next. Alot of times that requires us to know without being able to see what is going on in the surgical field. If they are using a Heaney clamp in a Hysterectomy, we know they are clamping off the vessels and need a kocher next to clamp those same vessels so they can cut them  and then tie them off. We can't see into the hole, but we have to know that it is the broad ligaments and the uterine vessels. And even with laparoscopies, we have to know what we are looking at to know what they need instrument-wise.

After 16 years in the OR I have learned that TEAMWORK is what is important! If the Scrub and Circulator have that competition going, that OR can be the most miserable place to work! It shouldn't be Nurse vs. Scrub! You can't take proper care of the patient without each other!

Question #1

An RN can do a Surg Techs job (scrub) but a Surg Tech can not do the RN's Job (Circulate).  RN's make about three times more hourly  then a surgical tech.  As for malpractice insurance I'm not sure if they offer it to Scrub Techs.  I know they do for RN's.

As to question #2

No, Scrubbing is not harder it just takes a different skill set. 

Question #1

You can get malpractice for Surgical techs. (There is a link from the Association of Surgical Technologist website). As a matter of fact, it is a good idea to carry your own insurance. I carry a $1million policy myself. The company you work for has a blanket policy, but remember, they will do what is in the best interest for them. And these days, the patient will start with the doctor and go down the line which puts you in the hotseat also.

One more thing to look into, and please check into this with a lawyer, is putting all your assets in your name and your spouses name. My husband is a cop and they were told in the Police academy to do this to protect them, but  since we are both in a high litigation profession, it is great advice. If you are sued , there is no way your home can be taken because it is also owned by your spouse, therefore it is not available. That is the gist of what he was told by te lawyers in the Police Academy.

first_assistant says ...

Actually ORNurseAngie, the military is using scrubs to circulate with RNs supervising more than one room. Scrunbs can circulate, but if any meds are needed to be given, the supervising RN has to be called to take care of the "license requirements". I see a big debate coming on in the civilian sector with the nursing shortage. I have gotten into a discussion with the RNs I work and we had a general concensus-we did not like that method! Although I was more than happy to "watch" over any needs while the circulator ran to get a narcotic needed for the surgeon, I was not willing to circulate a case with an RN supervising me and another 2-3 rooms! That was not a liability I was willing to put my name on!

First _Assistant

The military has done this for years and they're called corpsmen/corpswomen.  This is the government and they can do pretty much what they want.  I don't agree with the practice, however I was told many years ago, you can't be sued while in the military.  Whether or not this holds true, but that's how it used to be.

ORNurseAngie says ...

 

 

Question #1

An RN can do a Surg Techs job (scrub) but a Surg Tech can not do the RN's Job (Circulate).  RN's make about three times more hourly  then a surgical tech.  As for malpractice insurance I'm not sure if they offer it to Scrub Techs.  I know they do for RN's.

As to question #2

No, Scrubbing is not harder it just takes a different skill set. 

 

By the way, it is rare that an R.N. makes 3 times what a Surgical Technologist makes. In fact a good CST-FA can make well into the six figure range running their own first assist practice. As for the circulating part I addressed that in another reply above.

Hello, I would like to know if any Surgical Tech out there, is fighting for our License so that nurses don't have to be responsible for us.  We have the abiltiy to be self suffient.  We are underpayed, overworked, and more knowledgeable about the case we are scrubbing in.  Very few hospitals offer surgical tech, "breaks" after standing for several hours on our feet without a bathroom break.  If there are any government relatives who would lobby for our behalf, so that we may be licensed.  Please start now!  For the record, very few RN scrub cases or know how to relieve a surgical tech.  X-Ray Tech, Pharmacy Techs, and Respritory Tech are all Licensed!  Why are we refused the option to recieve a licensed.  RN who work for the Operating Room are afraid that we may make more money or ask nurses all-together to leave the OR.  Hospital and RN have lobbists who fight to keep us from getting Licensed.  The Certification board for Surgical Techs is run by RN's.  They have no intentions of getting us Licensed.  The CST board is only after collecting money for a magazine.  I don't want to bash on our own CST committee but the money they charge for certification means very little to hospital or anyone else fighting for our behalf.  I am tired of waiting and losing good surgical techs because, in order to further their career they have seek another profession.  Why can't we be given the ability or the offer to manage the Operating Room without becoming a RN.  Thank-you for this response and I hope other jump on board with this.  P.S. a new name for licensed surgical techs, could be "Licensed Surgical Assistants" (LSA).  Thank-you. 

I'm starting back to school soon and now I am just wanting to know If It would be better to get an associate's degree as a Surgical Tech. or an associate degree as an RN. I assume from what I've heard that an RN makes more money even starting out than a Surgical tech. which of course I prefer to make more money, but in the end, which would benefit me more, I DEFINITELY want to work in surgery, I don't want to be a regular floor nurse. I know as a surgical tech you have to take couses in Operating room techniques,surgical procedures,ect. So I think I might be more educated in the actual surgical aspect, but Is it better to go to school for 2 years to become an RN(same amount of time to be a surgical tech) Once an RN...would I need more school to become a surgical nurse...or OR nurse, can I get on the job training or can I pick which area I want to work in If I prefer surgey??

A scrub nurse prepares operating rooms and patients for invasive surgical procedures.

In New York State CST are recognized as scrub nurses...... Research.

 My friend is a surgical tech and he later became an RN .Pretty much if you become a surgical Tech as minus well be an RN you can just do so much being an RN even be in the operating room.

I'd like to start this reply by saying thank you to all my great OR RN friends throughout the years. Without you this is one CST that could never have had anything like the success, achievement, or personal satisfaction that I have enjoyed over the years.

Scholarship_boy, it is indeed possible to be an RN and work in the operating room. However, consider this, there are approximately 2.6 million RNs in the US. and somewhere in the neighborhood of 95,000 - 100,000 surgical technologists. Probably 95% of the surgical technologists are working in the operating room. The number of RNs in the OR are going to be slightly higher than the number of techs so lets say they are even doubled at 200,000. That means that about 7.7% of the RNs are in the operating room. Add to that the fact that in order to get into the OR you have to compete with all the others that want to get there and it becomes a very difficult proposition. Sure, you "can" work in the OR as an RN but it isn't likely that you will. RNs in the OR typically have prior experience on the floor or in an acute care unit before they are even considered as a candidate for the OR, it is very, very rare that a new graduate RN even gets a chance to look into the OR Suites much less work there.

The problem I have with this discussion is with the few people here that have set this up as a competition between RNs and nurses. It is not a competition, the two fields are becoming more and more divergent. Both members of the team are essential to the completion of surgical procedure. Nurses have many functions that should not and cannot be carried out by the ST. The Nurse that scrubs in an OR typically does the exact same job that surgical technologist does. Nurses that scrub in the OR rarely circulate and as a result they are in fact in the same position as a surgical technologist. There are no licensed functions that occur at the field other than the First Assist job and the surgeons job so the licensing is a non-issue for surgical technologist.

The idea that the surgical technologist works under the license of the RN is a misunderstanding. The RN is responsible for all that occurs in their room as a licensed individual. Having said that, the surgeon is responsible for all that occurs in their room as a licensed individual - so where is the difference and where does the tech fall in this scheme? The surgical technologist is actually an extension of the surgeon and of the hospital. As a member of the care team they answer directly to the surgeon and to the policies and procedures established by the hospital as well as any applicable state practice acts. It becomes an issue (and this is where the idea of the tech practicing on the RNs license comes from) when something goes wrong in the OR. If there is a problem in the OR the RN can lose their license as a result, this includes errors on the part of the tech. The surgeon is at risk as well, but this does not absolve the tech of any responsibility nor does it give them a pass to walk when things don't go the way they should. There are instances of techs being fired, sued, or criminally prosecuted as a result of their actions in the OR. Ultimately, surgical technologist are responsible for their own actions. Those actions may have an effect on others (the RNs license or the surgeons license or practice) but they are responsible as a guardian of what we refer to as surgical conscience.

I have worked with many, many RNs in a number of different locations over my 30+ year career as a tech. I have to say that the vast majority of them are very appreciative of what I bring to the team. I can also say that there are a few surgical technologists out there that have the same us versus them mentality. It is difficult to function as a team when there is competition within that team. Everyone has heard the old saying "There is no I in team", I like to tell my students that "There is no we in team either". It takes every single member of the team working individually as a part of a whole. Wihtout individual effort and individual cooperation the team will fail in meeting it's ultimate goal of giving the patient the best care we can give them. After all, that is what it is all about. We are all patient care advocates, we must look out for the patient in our care and that means that we are all responsible for each others actions as well.

As for the call to license surgical technologists I would like to quote President George Bush "Not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent!" The call at this time should be for the requirement that all surgical technologist be required to be certified. Mandatory certification is the better option in my opinion. Certification gives us the freedom to move from one states jurisdiction to another seamlessly with ease. Licensing is a whole different animal and it isn't likely to increase our scope of practice. Licensing would also add another fee to allow us to do our job without any real benefit. I might agree with the licensing idea if a degree in surgical technology became mandatory and there was a change in the scope of practice which allowed techs to do any position in the OR but I don't see those changes happening in my life time.

I'm sorry for the length of this post but I hope it brings a little perspective to this conversation and puts it back on track. As I said before, I have been in the field for 30+ years. There is no greater area to work, there are many opportunities to advance, move to other areas, continue your education, and just generally be satisfied with a career that makes a difference one patient at a time. I am now the Surgical Technology Program Director at Collin College and I probably make as much or more than most of the RNs in Texas. The money is there if that is what you are looking for, it takes a lot of hard work to get it. I like to think that anything of value is worth the effort to get it. If it comes free or easy it probably doesn't have much value. That is why nursing programs are so difficult and why surgical technology programs and the lifelong learning that comes with the job is difficult as well. Anything worth doing is worth doing well, and I can't imagine any group of people that I would rather try achieve a goal with than the members of an OR team - Surgeons, Anesthetists, RNs, Surgical Technologists, and let's not forget environmental services.

Maybe it's a location issue, but new grads are hired into OR's quite frequently.  I've always discouraged new grads from doing this since they don't come out of the OR very marketable in other areas.  They don't get a chance to develop their basic nursing skills from simple clinical skills to assessment and critical thinking.  Learn how to actually take care of the sick and injured on your own first.

Thanks, Teresa.  I'm kinda hit & miss with computer time.