Everything Nurses >> Nurse Talk >> Who lives, who dies
Who lives, who dies
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Posted about 5 years ago What is your take on this? Docs list who would be allowed to die in a catastrophe
CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- Doctors know some patients needing lifesaving care won't get it in a flu pandemic or other disaster. The gut-wrenching dilemma will be deciding whom to let die. Now, an influential group of physicians has drafted a grimly specific list of recommendations for which patients wouldn't be treated. They include the very elderly, seriously hurt trauma victims, severely burned patients and those with severe dementia. The suggested list was compiled by a task force whose members come from prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Department of Health and Human Services. The proposed guidelines are designed to be a blueprint for hospitals "so that everybody will be thinking in the same way" when pandemic flu or another widespread health care disaster hits, said Dr. Asha Devereaux. She is a critical care specialist in San Diego, California, and lead writer of the task force report. The idea is to try to make sure that scarce resources -- including ventilators, medicine and doctors and nurses -- are used in a uniform, objective way, task force members said. Their recommendations appear in a report appearing Monday in the May edition of Chest, the medical journal of the American College of Chest Physicians. "If a mass casualty critical care event were to occur tomorrow, many people with clinical conditions that are survivable under usual health care system conditions may have to forgo life-sustaining interventions owing to deficiencies in supply or staffing," the report states. To prepare, hospitals should designate a triage team with the Godlike task of deciding who will and who won't get lifesaving care, the task force wrote. Those out of luck are the people at high risk of death and a slim chance of long-term survival. But the recommendations get much more specific, and include: • People older than 85. • Those with severe trauma, which could include critical injuries from car crashes and shootings. • Severely burned patients older than 60. • Those with severe mental impairment, which could include advanced Alzheimer's disease. • Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure, lung disease or poorly controlled diabetes. Dr. Kevin Yeskey, director of the preparedness and emergency operations office at the Department of Health and Human Services, was on the task force. He said the report would be among many the agency reviews as part of preparedness efforts. Public health law expert Lawrence Gostin of Georgetown University called the report an important initiative but also "a political minefield and a legal minefield." The recommendations would probably violate federal laws against age discrimination and disability discrimination, said Gostin, who was not on the task force. If followed to a tee, such rules could exclude care for the poorest, most disadvantaged citizens who suffer disproportionately from chronic disease and disability, he said. While health care rationing will be necessary in a mass disaster, "there are some real ethical concerns here." James Bentley, a senior vice president at American Hospital Association, said the report will give guidance to hospitals in shaping their own preparedness plans even if they don't follow all the suggestions. He said the proposals resemble a battlefield approach in which limited health care resources are reserved for those most likely to survive. Bentley said it's not the first time this type of approach has been recommended for a catastrophic pandemic, but that "this is the most detailed one I have seen from a professional group." While the notion of rationing health care is unpleasant, the report could help the public understand that it will be necessary, Bentley said. Devereaux said compiling the list "was emotionally difficult for everyone." That's partly because members believe it's just a matter of time before such a health care disaster hits, she said. "You never know," Devereaux said. "SARS took a lot of folks by surprise. We didn't even know it existed." And verily, verily I say unto thee that some day it shall come to pass that from the earth there shall come a thundering roar, fire and smoke, and from the darkness, fire and smoke an Angel shall rise. Thou cannot speaketh his name for Hell follows him |
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| Posted about 5 years ago This sounds like very tough choices but if supplies are low and you have to triage you would not have much choice. When a nursing home has to be evacuated in case of fire, those who cannot walk are the last to move. Now, how hard would that be? |
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| Posted about 5 years ago I would not be wanting to make the decision of who gets treated and who doesn't. I understand the rationale behind this and I'm sure it is something that will need to be taken into consideration should something catastrophic occur. I too feel that this might not be too far off. |
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| Posted about 5 years ago well, I think they have to do this in the ER with mass causalities |
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| Posted about 5 years ago Thats true. I'm sure that a busy ER experiences these decisions every day...since human resources are often scarce. Looking at Katrina, it appears that a natural selection process occurs in a disaster. I don't know why people care to put down guidelines beyond "children first". I also personally have a problem with the mentally ill being combined with the physically ill. Why should they be left behind if they are able bodied. |
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| Posted about 5 years ago This is a very touchy subject with me. I understand the reasoning but I still would not want to be the one making these decisions. I agree why is the mentally ill grouped with the physically ill? It's hard to fathom the idea but it is not unlikely to ever happen. If it came down to it I wouldn't want to make the call but I could if put in the situation, I guess. We all value human life or we wouldn't be in the field and tha's what makes it hard! |
