Everything Nurses >> Nursing Politics/Activism >> How do you handle an outraged physician?
How do you handle an outraged physician?
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Posted about 5 years ago Situation: Just this week I have encountered my 2nd fall out w/one of the hospital's Cardiologists. Both occurrences happened over the telephone. Each time, screaming in my ear I defensively return: 1st incident) "this phone conversation is over & I'm hanging up" 2nd incident) "I will not sit here on the phone and be harassed by you". Needless to say, the receiver hit the phone base. Background: I have been a traveling ICU nurse for approx 1.5yrs. I have been at my current assignment since Jan. The second incident MD has a bad rep w/nurses through out the hospital. I've been told "you have to work w/him for twenty years before havin a good working relationship w/him... don't take it personally". Also, I have been told that multiple reports have been filed against this physician and nothing has come of them. My guess is that b/c this facility is expanding their cardiac services, those docs are not expendable. Nurses, especially travelers, are. Action: I filed incident reports for each. Response: The hospital will not be renewing my contract secondary to "I just don't think you're a good fit..." Question: What is an appropriate way of handling an outraged physician? Is there a higher level of Physician reporting available? What can we (nurses, patients, or families) do to curb MD anger bursts on a nat'l or world-wide level?
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| Posted about 5 years ago I have one MD that is very much about getting in your face. He and I had at "heated" discussion the other day, because he just signs things and doesn't read what he is signing. Needless to say, he went to the Administrator of our practice who had my back. My best suggestion is be polite as possible and instead yelling simply be aggressive with your words. I don't want to sound like a tattle tale, but let someone know how this MD is talking to you and how you feel. Just because they have MD behind their name, doesn't make them better then you. They put their pants on one leg at time like the rest of us. I have found, no matter where you work, you will always have that one MD that gets in your face or carries a huge attitude. There has to be a head Physician above him.... |
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| Posted about 5 years ago Some of the older physicians think they are Gods. They're difficult to deal with. What was he upset about? Was it with you or the situation? Some of the "old school" MDs have to be dealt with kid gloves. It's just that way. And it will make everything go smoother for everybody in the long run. I worked with a MD who could be a real bear. When he was in one of his "moods", I tried to stay out of his way as much as possible. And when I did have to interact with him, I walked on egg shells. Don't stir the pot and make things worse than they have to be. These are "old school" doctors and are use to getting their way. You can't teach an old dogs new tricks. |
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| Posted about 5 years ago Having been a travel RN for around 10 years, one of the first things I realized is you can not rock the boat. They'll find any reason to screw you over. Apparently at this facility by standing up for yourself and writing up the doctors and you wrote them up for good reasons, they have now labeled you as not a good fit. As a traveler you do not have the same "clout" you would have as a staff member. Your credibility, performance, expertise must be higher than others. you're scrutinized and held to higher standards than staff. Sad but true. You always must be non confrontational. Rather than having said something confrontational, it would have been better to say nothing and just listen and not take it personally. I've been known to quietly hang up and then call them back apologizing for 'accidentally disconnecting' or saying, I'm sorry Doctor, I'm not sure what happened but we became disconnected." Doesn't matter if the physician is younger or older, there are always going to be arrogant, egotistical ones out there. As either a patient or family member, I get in their face. You either treat me or my family member with respect and talk to me as a human being or guess what? You're fired. They don't want to lose your business, it's money out of their pocket, so they usually straighten up. To often, non medical people don't have the chutzpah to do this or are to ill or under a lot of stress. As staff members, if all stood together and told administrators, hey we are not going to allow this kind of treatment and behavior anymore and every stood united this would stop. I know many facilities now make physcians take anger management courses or they are suspended from practice. |
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| Posted about 5 years ago Most hospitals have a Medical Director that is in charge of other physicians. I had a run in with one of my emergency room doctors for approx the first year I was working in the ER. I chalked it up to being a LPN in the ER with no ER experience, but I stuck it out and now he treats me with respect most of the time, but doesn't like travelers much. In which case I deflect his rage even to the point of telling him to go to his room(the on call room-they work 24 hr shifts) or handing him a cup of coffee. As to dealing with difficult doctors over the phone just state the facts to them get the orders and get off the phone as quickly as possible. I also try to limit the amount of time I have to spend on the phone with them by having all their patients charts handy so if he asks a question about a different patient than the one I'm calling about I have info there. Just remember you can please someone some of the time, but you can't please everyone all of the time. And sometimes there is no pleasing them. |
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| Posted about 5 years ago Having been a travel RN for around 10 years, one of the first things I realized is you can not rock the boat. They'll find any reason to screw you over. Apparently at this facility by standing up for yourself and writing up the doctors and you wrote them up for good reasons, they have now labeled you as not a good fit.
As a traveler you do not have the same "clout" you would have as a staff member. Your credibility, performance, expertise must be higher than others. you're scrutinized and held to higher standards than staff. Sad but true. Dmazement..this is so true.I was a traveler until about 2 years ago and unless the traveler has a nurse manager with "guts" agains the personal attacks against the nurses be it a traveler or not. As you say...just don't rock the bpat.I had one cardiovascular surgeoncall me an "f----g" idiot in front of pt.,and all the nurses station.I had jsut gotten to work and taken report.The night charge nurse had CLAMPED a chest tube..and he tried(notice i said tried) to blame me..the patient was alert and furious(also scared) my nurse manager tried to put it on me and i pulled out the shift report and showed her in BLACK and WHITE where other nurse had written she had clamped it.All backed off of me and MD did not speak to me for 3 months ,so i kinda taunted him everytime I saw him..'Like Hi,not speaking to me"? we actually became friends and I was one of the few nurses he would ALLOW to care for his pts..even though i wish i wasnt on his "Preferred"list....he actually was called before the board at the hospital on numerous occasions for his bad behavior...and then he would tone it down a bit...
Drew |
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| Posted about 5 years ago We need to not be afraid to stand up for ourselves in any situation. Doctors are people, they bleed red just like the rest of us. A busy RN is here |
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| Posted about 5 years ago Definitely right AbusyRN ..and pee the same way and put on their pants the same way...:) Drew |
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| Posted about 5 years ago Wow, thanx soo much for taking the time to reply! Y'all have been very helpful My Plan: "kill them w/ kindness" Strategies:
I hope I didn't miss any of your suggestions. If so, please forgive me. Also, if you think of anything more Please add on to the above list. As we all know: Everybody is different & every situation is unique. I believe, we (Nurses) can overcome and rise above these "Devils of Healthcare" if we have a strong strategy base which we can pull from. Thanx Again 4 your input. |
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| Posted about 5 years ago I try to remain professional and keep the conversation short. I am not tolerant of verbal abuse and I believe we all need to treat each other with respect. When a physician becomes outraged and verbally abusive I try to imagine what his upbringing was like for him/her to have so little control of his/her emotions. I know it doesn't change things, but it prevents me from taking things too personal. Oh, and remmember...at the end of your shift, you don't take him home...Thank God!!! |
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| Posted about 5 years ago I dont know the answer but I know a few doctors that totally outraged me the other day why 1)One was heard demeaning and shouting at the Rn(charge nurse) Being a protector by nature I felt like knocking him out or telling him off 2)another tried to demean me by having me read him 25 standing orders to show me how stupid i was I told him off he was shocked I was shocked too. In twelve years I have never been rude to a doctor I was always in awe until one shouted at me and nearly gave me a heart attack I literally felt pains in my chest. 3)I was also shocked to find out that i was more worried about the patient than one or two docs I met others were overprotective of the patient to the point of being demanding and overbearing. 4) after working with a doct who was wonderful to his nurses I received yet another shock or partial shock to realize that some doctors didnot want you calling them even though they were on call 5) I was also shocked to find I was almost as good a nurse to the point I think I would be a good doctor. One patient said she thought I was a doctor, well enough of the bragging as you can see I have very high self esteem ...It did put a strain on me as they werent appreciative and continued their arrogance even though i could have blown one of their liscens away for neglegence well because of my quick and persistent nature inspite of the insult I perserverd and remedy was met. ehhhh!.............These are some of the things in nursing which left me drained and literrally burned out and I am only an Lpn The responsibility was too much. There needs to be an Independent Nursing Reveiw Board independent of the work place that solves disagreements. ( see ethics in workplace, activism forum) |
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| Posted almost 5 years ago I am very blunt and straight forward when dealing with doctors in person and on the phone, you need to sound confident in your tone, no bs, you have to be confident in what you are saying or asking. Today I called a doc to get orders for a patient while I was in the patients home, the MA said "The doc is in with a drug rep can he call you back" I said uh NO! Tell him I think his patient is more important that some free pens and I need to speak to him now! A few seconds later the doc got on the phone, he did not say a word about the drug rep comment, he DID give me my orders. I have gotton into a screaming match with a few doctors over the years, and because I was right I did not back down, one doc came up to me afterwards and said he had never had a nurse stand up to him before, he asked me "who I thought I was" I replied "your collegue, equal to and just as important to the patient as you are, who do you think YOU are"? He said "an ass hole from what I hear", I said well that sounds like a personal problem, he laughed and we have been friends almost 15 years now. You must show the doctors that you are an equal and hold your head up high! A busy RN is here |
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| Posted almost 5 years ago I think the best way to handel a doctor who has a self imposed god complex is to flat out tell him/her, in as sweet a tone as you can muster at the time, that when you think you can talk to me in a civil tone call back. Then hang up. You get your point across and you take the profesional high ground. |
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| Posted almost 5 years ago I've been in the health care industry for 35 years as a patient care tech, LVN, and RN. I've worked in just about every setting from school nurse, to home health, to public health, to hospital (all roles), to law firms. I've been a direct caregiver, entrepreneuer, Legal Nurse Consultant, clinical auditor, insurance auditor, QA coordinator, and hospital risk manager. LOL. With all that said, I have only had to deal with about a half dozen physicians with attitude problems. When I've investigated occurrence reports such as have been noted on this thread, I have the written documentation of the staff turning in the incident, and often a statement from a fellow employee who also witnessed the offense. A summary of the report, minus names of involved staff, is sent to the Medical Staff Office, and the report automatically goes into the physician's credentialling file. That file is accessed and summaries of his care, occurrence reports, etc. are pulled for review by the medical committee that oversees that physician. For instance, if he is a surgeon, it goes to the Surgical Committee. If he's a pediatrician, it ges to the Pediatrics Committee. The physician is sent a letter to request his side of the story and any corroborating evidence. The Committee reviews all information and make a determintion as to whether the doctor erred, and depending on the findings, they will make a recommendation for him to attend anger management classes, make a formal apology to the staff, go to counselling, etc. At the doctor's annual review, all of these reports and other reviews are looked at by a physician-directed credentialing committee who decide whether he is to remain on the staff for the next or following years. The hospital has to have corroborating evidence from the staff in order to help the case against the physician. It's hard to objectively review when it's he said/she said. So, our recommendation is that if you are calling or needing to talk with a physician with behavioral issues, including his/her not returning pages, etc., then have another nurse on the phone or with you when you have to call or talk to him, and document the calls in the medical record. DO NOT document his exact words, like, "You idiot, SOB nurse! Don't call me back for any reason!!" In the medical record you would just document, "Dr. X notified of patient's elevated BP, need for IV fluids, and rash on left leg. Dr. gave no response re: care issues." Then complete an occurrence report with the exact wording. Of course, there is no need to actually write out the f>>k word (do like I just did). Just state the facts, not your opinions. Please, though, follow the guidelines from your hospital or facility on what I just relayed, because some risk management departments vary in how they want these things handled, okay? When talking with a doctor on the phone, I recommend staying with the issue at hand and don't get into a yelling match or one-upmanship, but be firm regarding the patient's condition, etc. The NUMERO UNO thing that pisses off doctors is nurses NOT being prepared and organized when they return a call or when they call to ask the condition of their patients. They tell us (and believe me I've heard from plenty of doctors at numerous hospitals) that many nurses keep having to ask someone nearby them for info re: the patient, fumble with the chart, not even know the status or diagnosis of the patient in question, not be prepared with the last vital signs, lab values, I & O, etc.. So, if you are one of the great nurses that does everything right, and you get a call from a nasty-ass doctor, BE NICE, BE PROFESSIONAL, and realize that he may not be use to dealing with a "professional" nurse, okay? It doesn't excuse his behavior, but it may explain it and help you to understand not to take it personal and YOU are in charge of the final outcome, including the patient who is your most important priority. Hope this helps!!
Ann
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