I believe that CNAs are very important members of the health team... I have high respect for them as well as any other member in the health team.

as a CNA i think thats non sense we all work together, no one is better then the other, if  you think you deserve better pay, and its not fair what LPN's and RN get paid, go back too school you have to remeber they earn their postion and pay. im not going to talk about what i should be getting im going to make a way so i can acheive it

As an LPN, I work very hard to help the CNAs with patient care. CNAs are appreciated whether they know it or not. If nothing else, think about the patient. You know if you gave them good care or not. Maybe you won't get a pat on the back or a thank you, but good care is never a waste of time.

Still, I do empathize. CNAs get treated like s*it most of the time, and I wish that would change. It is about mindset. There is no shame in being a CNA and never going to nursing school. Do what is best for you. Personally, I love it when the nursing home lets me work a shift as a CNA instead of being a nurse. No med pass, and I can focus on oral care, baths, shaving, fingernails, etc. CNAs have the most impact on quality of life for patients. Every little thing a CNA does makes a difference. I hate when families come to visit and try to tell us how to take care of the patient. The CNAs know the patient better than the family does!

I think pay is a huge issue - CNAs are way underpaid. Many are at poverty level, and yet companies have the nerve to ask them, no EXPECT then to participate in things like a United Way campaign.

CNAs do count. You won't get rich as a CNA, but you really do make a difference.

I love my CNA's and I try to show it all the time. I agree that they are way under paid and way over worked. I try to show my aids that I care by.

1. Helping them ANY time they ask if I can.

2. Respecting them and listening if they have something to say.

3. Validating how they feel about a situation.

4. If I have time I will do pt care too.

5. Answering call lights and putting people on bedpans and other tasks that often get passed on cause a nurse doesnt feel like doing it

6 I also tell them thank you all the time AND MEAN IT

7. I try to treat my aids once a week or so as a thankyou, by buying them pizza or bringing in stuff to make icecream sundays or cookies or something.

I think the BIGGEST problems with aids is the governments rule on "safe nursing" allows them to have 15 patients to one aid...Too much for one person on a good day

First and foremost, I am sorry you had to experince that. That is truly terrible and the facility should not have allowed that, you can turn them in. But that is not the norm. And can I point out...... it is fathom, not fantum.

Why is every post on here anonymous?

CNAs do count. They do direct patient care and are stretched pretty thin. The pay is on the low side, however given the 4 months of training given after high school education does not give you much $$$ for any given job!  It is an entry level position. It is a non-credentialed , non-licensed position. But every hospital has tuition refund! So if you are not satisfied with your pay and / or your role, then grab that tuition refund and do something about it.  When I was a nurses aide I made $1.88/ hour!  My friends, all of them, had the same educational level as me, but they worked for the state in various offices and made 3 times what I made.  I do not like office work. I wanted to be a nurse, and I am a nurse now with 31 years of RN experience so far!!

Hello! I just found this site because I was searching the internet for sites referring to Teamwork in Nursing homes. I'm a CNA and I'm having a lot of problems with where I work. I love my job and what I do, it's just that I can't get everyone to get along. It seems as if everyone I work with is saying negative things about everyone else. The RN's and LPN's really do look down on CNA's and our opinions and I'm so frustrated by it. I've complained to our DN, but what can she do? Nothing. It's just their attitude. I'll give a couple of examples: I was getting a resident up in the morning and to the bathroom and noticed he was wheezing with every breath. I asked another CNA to go get the charge nurse, so she could check his pulse/ox. After a bit, she came in and I told her about the situation. Without even checking on the resident, she yelled at me because she just walked ALL the way from the dining room where she was feeding to come in there! She also told me that his wheezing was nothing unusual. I felt really silly for being concerned. I apologized to her as she huffed off. Well, the next day in report, they passed on that that particular resident was having a horrible breathing problem and suggested taking him to the hospital. That charge nurse didn't even offer an apology to me.

One more example, I knew of an instance where a resident slipped out of a sit to stand lift. She had a bruise on her bottom and behind her knee. For days after that, I kept telling the charge nurse (a different one than previously mentioned) that there was something very wrong with her leg. I couldn't even take off her sock without her screaming. I was just told, "well, she has a bruise", and no one would even come look. Every day for five days, I reported that there was something wrong with her leg. One day, out of frustration, I wheeled her out into the hall and called a charge nurse over and demanded that someone look at her leg. I felt so horrible for her. I knew she was in so much pain. Finally, this charge nurse listened to me and notified the DN who got an x-ray ordered. And guess what? Her leg was broken all along!

It's things like this that make me want to leave my job. Like I said, I love what I do. I'm just having a hard time accepting that my opinion doesn't matter when I'm the one spending the most amount of time with them. And it's not just the big issues as I described, it's all the little things. Like, a nurse rolling her eyes at me when I ask a simple question. Or the frustrated huff when I report something.

I'm sorry this is so long. I'm just venting. I just got home from another frustrating day of work and I'm hoping to find others who can relate and maybe offer some advice on how to promote teamwork.

Thanks for your time. Oh, and as far as why everyone is posting anonymously, all I see is a "post anonymously" link. My screen name is Deeder.  

 

CNA's certainly do count....if they have all their fingers and toes....otherwise it makes it hard to multiply and divide.

Seriously, this question is on several forums...just worded differently. I am a CNA....doesn't bother me. If a person doesn't like their job, go back to school...don't say you can't. People make adjustments in family life in order to achieve their goal. If you don't want school, get a different job. Don't let the energy you expend on these forums go to waste...use it to do something that will make you happy. You cannot go through life constantly needing to be reassured that you matter in someone's life...you should actually be getting that from your patients now. If you're not, maybe you should reexamine your side of the situation. A positive attitude reveals itself without having to be put into words...as does a negative one...the patients pick up on this right away.

Whatever you do, don't depend on others to make you happy and content in your work. It just ain't going to happen.

When I was a CNA, I had my preceptor assigned for my first shift and for the first 3 weeks on the unit.  She was suspended a few days later for screaming at and mocking a resident who was very much in the depths of dementia and could not control what she said to staff.  The charge nurse laughed about it and said "oh, we get suspended for sh*t like that all the time."  Next, a man who was very lean and strong started to kick the charge nurse in her ribs and she yelled at one of the other new CNAs to hold his arms and help her restrain him.  We were taught in class (state regs) to not do this if the resident was in no danger of self-harm, but instead to step back and give the person space.  He was sitting on his bed and in no danger, and needed to calm down in his own way.  Another LPN came in and argued with the charge nurse to "never tell anyone to hold him, you know the drill, just let him vent and it ends in two minutes, you don't get staff to put themselves in a position to be hurt and you should have backed off."   The nurses then had a massive argument right out in the hallway, and the charge nurse was told to not tell CNAs to restrain residents in that kind of situation.  Instead, the charge nurse wrote up the new CNA for not doing what she was told to do.  These kinds of episodes occurred all the time.  It might have just been the facility I was working in, but the relationship between CNAs and LPNs was simply poisonous.  The RNs were so swamped with desk work and staffing problems they were rarely able to free up their time to be on the floors.  It was so bad at times with staffing that new CNAs, barely out of class for a week, were floated on shifts when the DON made it clear to supervisors to NEVER float new staff.  On six separate shifts I arrived to be the only CNA on the entire unit for an overnight shift, and the LPN would say parked at the computer all night.  This happened over and over again -- situations like these -- until the facility was inspected for a series of resident/family complaints and the DON was dismissed a year later.   YES, CNAs matter, but I believe it truly depends so much on where you have your first job and how you are trained and treated by nursing staff in your first year.  I have since been working as a CNA while in an LPN program at a different facility and it is a WHOLE different atmosphere and the nurses are all great and the staff relationships are far superior to what I was introduced to.  I think new CNAs need to be mentored in good facilities first -- that first bad job experience can send them out of the job for good.   The problem is that so many SNFs are desperate for staff and will sometimes just ignore the problems and cross their fingers that people don't quit or do something reckless out of being rushed and poorly supervised.  It is NOT okay to arrive for the 7-3 to realize you need to get 22 residents OOB and you and one other CNA staying overtime from the night shift are the only CNAs on duty that morning.  Again, the second facility I've worked for does not have these problems. 

Anonymous says ...

Ok, first, I'm 31 and it really burns me when older people say when i was a BLANK i made 25 cents an hour....well thats outdated sister/mister.  So is the soda and candy bar for a nickel!  Along with walking uphill in the snow, both ways, with bread sacks for shoes, to get to school!

Angry much?

Second, I'm not sure what state you're in, but here, a CNA and HHA is most definitely a position that you must posess a valid license from the state to perform, and I'm not even sure there is a state where you can perform CNA work without a license.  Joe/Josephine Blow cannot just walk in off the street and start giving baths to PTs.  It's not a certificate anymore (im only assuming it once was based on the 1.88/hr)  But ya know what...nurses used to be trained IN a hospital beginning to end...I work with a nurse thats so old...she has to have special dispensation because her original nursing diploma wasnt even a diploma.  Shes like 147, and gripes less than some of the newbies. 

No where in the US are CNA's or HHA's licensed.  They are certified.  RNs and LPNs are licensed.  A license means you can practice independently:  a nurse can start a business and hang out a shingle.  CNAs can never work outside the supervision of a nurse.  CNA work is still a certification:  that's why CNA stands for Certified Nursing Assistant.  CNAs may not refer to themselves as nurses.  They are not nurses.  In every state, calling yourself a nurse when you are not an RN or LPN is a criminal offense punishable with jail time and/or a fine.

It is true that nursing training used to be done on the job, and that it was much more basic than it is today.  However, even in the late 19th century, it was still more than learning how to put a patient on a bedpan.  Nurses had to know how to administer medications safely, dress wounds, maintain hygeine, etc.  They had to have an understanding of anatomy and physiology, chemistry, nutrition, and pharmacology on a level that is still college level today.  I have the textbooks from the period in my collection.  Nursing students 100 years ago did learn on the job as well as in the classroom, and also had to do everything that housekeeping does today.  So give your 147 year old nurse some respect:  she's earned it!

Now on to the show.  I grew up with parents who owned a restaurant, and those have HIGH turnover, just like a NH.  However, my parents could keep a staff like no other and I think it was for 3 reasons.  They paid a decent wage, gave credit where credit is due, and their motto, even as owners, was "i won't ask you to do anything that I wouldn't do myself." 

A sign of good management.  I appauld.  Too many people are not willing to manage to this standard.  For every nurse who doesn't, there are two who do.

Second, IF were going to compare salaries based on comparitive education, most nurses are ADNs or ASNs...which means that you hold an ASSOCIATES degree.  Given that degree...ADN/ASN nurses are comparitively HIGH paid to their other Associate degree counterparts. The same can even be said for BSNs.  NOW...are we paid what we DESERVE?!  NO!!!!!!  So dont dig on a CNA/HHA because they took a course that lasted less than a year. 

You have no idea what you are talking about.  None.  ADN/ASN RN graduates finish a program that is just as tough and intensive as a BSN program.  Because admission is so competitive, they often spend as long in school as a BSN grad.  They take the same licensing examination as BSN grads, work the same job, and have the same responsibilities under the Nurse Practice Act.  I graduated from an ASN program.  It was as tough as the BSN program I later attended to advance my education.  In some ways tougher.  I also teach in an ADN program.  Our graduates are highly sought after because they graduate well skilled and knowledgeable.  Some of my graduates post here.  If they see this, they will tell you how tough an instructor I am--and how much they learned from me.

It is an unfortunate fact that neither nurses nor CNAs are paid what we are worth.  Wages for RNs and LPNs have stagnated for 20 years.  Wages for CNAs are up only because the minimum wage is up.  However, an RN or an LPN is paid a wage that is commensurate with their training, that is they are paid much more than CNAs because their training and responsibilities far outstrip those of a CNA.  Being a CNA is a back breaking and often thankless job.  But CNAs do not possess the skills to justify wages anywhere near what a nurse makes.  Nurses are actually underpaid for the level of knowledge and skill they possess, including LPNs and ADN RNs!

CNA courses are sometimes taught online with no clinical component.  I don't think such a person, even though they pass the state test for certification, is being overpaid.  Some CNA courses are more intense.  They are probably still underpaid.  Either way, however, one of my frustrations as a nursing instructor is that I always have to break CNAs of bad habits when they enter my program.  Most cannot take a manual blood pressure correctly.

We need to stop with the "my diploma/license/pee pee/va jay jay is bigger than yours business.  We're all working stiffs, and we're all getting stiffed.  CNAs are the backbone of facilities....all facilities, they do the dirty work.  How many nurses can say that you look at and clean up boo boo (that means feces) on a daily basis?  Not many I bet.   But how many of you CNAs can say that you have Docs yelling at you, administrators yelling at you, families yelling at you, all while threatening to take away their business and your license....and so on...its a stressful (insert expletive).  Add on top of all of the above, the politics of the building, and then the corporate financial hunger, and its like a smackdown everyday for most of us for not much cheese (that means money). 

I clean up shit on a daily basis.  Most of the nurses I know do.  I never ask a CNA to do anything I'm not willing to do myself.  However, CNA's are there to assist the nurses, which mean if I have something to do that is a higher priority then you are going to be asked to clean that bed, or walk that patient in the hall.  That's the CNA role.  if you don't like that role, go to nursing school or find another job.  It's just that simple.

I don't allow anyone to yell at me.  If someone is upset with me, I ask them to take it somewhere private.  I have hung up on doctors who attempted to abuse me on the phone.  I set limits on patients and family members who behave inappropriately.  If I can, I attempt to de-escalate--not always successful but I try.  Offering to listen does help when people are upset.

Even if youre a BSN theres always someone more educated and smarter than you just around the block that thinks you have the brain capcity of a gnat because youre degree is wittle bitty.  SO shut it. 

That certainly is the case with you.  Yeah, I've had docs try to talk down to me because I'm "just a nurse."  When I was still an LPN, an RN once tried to call me a "Little Pretend Nurse."  However, I treat those who have more education or experience with the respect they deserve, and expect the same in return so those issues have been few and far between.  The vast majority of my colleagues have always treated me decently and respectfully.  Even when I was still an LPN, I worked with doctors who valued my opinion because I was the best durned LPN I could possibly be while staying within my scope of practice.  That earned their respect, and that's the key.  Respect is earned.

Did I mention that I just came off a shift that was a complete cluster (insert explitive).  Our COO decided to work late...on a Sunday (Dumb@$$).  He's NEVER even BEEN in healthcare...apparently hes a financial guru though...I think hes just a parking lot beating victim waiting to happen.  Anywho, a PT fell...then he hears about it, Nurse gets chewed a new (IE) hole...then all the Techs.  Blood, sweat and tears.  Xanax for all, I would say alprazolam...but I think we deserve name brand drugs at least. 

It's unfortunate that many in hospital administration have no idea what it is like to work on the front lines.  Sorry to hear you had such a bad day, but really, if you are so unhappy why don't you consider a career change?  Or at least a job change?  People who stay in crappy jobs have to accept responsibility for their own unhappiness.  When I'm unhappy, I quit and get a job doing something else.  Of course, no job is perfect, but then again, I'm not dependant on Xanax to get thorugh my day.

Theala

Theala,

I couldn't have responded better to that misinformed person.  Great job!  Their attempt at angry humor fell flat with me.

RNdude

Anonymous says ...

Anonymous says ...

 

Ok, first, I'm 31 and it really burns me when older people say when i was a BLANK i made 25 cents an hour....well thats outdated sister/mister.  So is the soda and candy bar for a nickel!  Along with walking uphill in the snow, both ways, with bread sacks for shoes, to get to school!

Angry much?

Second, I'm not sure what state you're in, but here, a CNA and HHA is most definitely a position that you must posess a valid license from the state to perform, and I'm not even sure there is a state where you can perform CNA work without a license.  Joe/Josephine Blow cannot just walk in off the street and start giving baths to PTs.  It's not a certificate anymore (im only assuming it once was based on the 1.88/hr)  But ya know what...nurses used to be trained IN a hospital beginning to end...I work with a nurse thats so old...she has to have special dispensation because her original nursing diploma wasnt even a diploma.  Shes like 147, and gripes less than some of the newbies. 

No where in the US are CNA's or HHA's licensed.  They are certified.  RNs and LPNs are licensed.  A license means you can practice independently:  a nurse can start a business and hang out a shingle.  CNAs can never work outside the supervision of a nurse.  CNA work is still a certification:  that's why CNA stands for Certified Nursing Assistant.  CNAs may not refer to themselves as nurses.  They are not nurses.  In every state, calling yourself a nurse when you are not an RN or LPN is a criminal offense punishable with jail time and/or a fine.

It is true that nursing training used to be done on the job, and that it was much more basic than it is today.  However, even in the late 19th century, it was still more than learning how to put a patient on a bedpan.  Nurses had to know how to administer medications safely, dress wounds, maintain hygeine, etc.  They had to have an understanding of anatomy and physiology, chemistry, nutrition, and pharmacology on a level that is still college level today.  I have the textbooks from the period in my collection.  Nursing students 100 years ago did learn on the job as well as in the classroom, and also had to do everything that housekeeping does today.  So give your 147 year old nurse some respect:  she's earned it!

Now on to the show.  I grew up with parents who owned a restaurant, and those have HIGH turnover, just like a NH.  However, my parents could keep a staff like no other and I think it was for 3 reasons.  They paid a decent wage, gave credit where credit is due, and their motto, even as owners, was "i won't ask you to do anything that I wouldn't do myself." 

A sign of good management.  I appauld.  Too many people are not willing to manage to this standard.  For every nurse who doesn't, there are two who do.

Second, IF were going to compare salaries based on comparitive education, most nurses are ADNs or ASNs...which means that you hold an ASSOCIATES degree.  Given that degree...ADN/ASN nurses are comparitively HIGH paid to their other Associate degree counterparts. The same can even be said for BSNs.  NOW...are we paid what we DESERVE?!  NO!!!!!!  So dont dig on a CNA/HHA because they took a course that lasted less than a year. 

You have no idea what you are talking about.  None.  ADN/ASN RN graduates finish a program that is just as tough and intensive as a BSN program.  Because admission is so competitive, they often spend as long in school as a BSN grad.  They take the same licensing examination as BSN grads, work the same job, and have the same responsibilities under the Nurse Practice Act.  I graduated from an ASN program.  It was as tough as the BSN program I later attended to advance my education.  In some ways tougher.  I also teach in an ADN program.  Our graduates are highly sought after because they graduate well skilled and knowledgeable.  Some of my graduates post here.  If they see this, they will tell you how tough an instructor I am--and how much they learned from me.

It is an unfortunate fact that neither nurses nor CNAs are paid what we are worth.  Wages for RNs and LPNs have stagnated for 20 years.  Wages for CNAs are up only because the minimum wage is up.  However, an RN or an LPN is paid a wage that is commensurate with their training, that is they are paid much more than CNAs because their training and responsibilities far outstrip those of a CNA.  Being a CNA is a back breaking and often thankless job.  But CNAs do not possess the skills to justify wages anywhere near what a nurse makes.  Nurses are actually underpaid for the level of knowledge and skill they possess, including LPNs and ADN RNs!

CNA courses are sometimes taught online with no clinical component.  I don't think such a person, even though they pass the state test for certification, is being overpaid.  Some CNA courses are more intense.  They are probably still underpaid.  Either way, however, one of my frustrations as a nursing instructor is that I always have to break CNAs of bad habits when they enter my program.  Most cannot take a manual blood pressure correctly.

We need to stop with the "my diploma/license/pee pee/va jay jay is bigger than yours business.  We're all working stiffs, and we're all getting stiffed.  CNAs are the backbone of facilities....all facilities, they do the dirty work.  How many nurses can say that you look at and clean up boo boo (that means feces) on a daily basis?  Not many I bet.   But how many of you CNAs can say that you have Docs yelling at you, administrators yelling at you, families yelling at you, all while threatening to take away their business and your license....and so on...its a stressful (insert expletive).  Add on top of all of the above, the politics of the building, and then the corporate financial hunger, and its like a smackdown everyday for most of us for not much cheese (that means money). 

I clean up shit on a daily basis.  Most of the nurses I know do.  I never ask a CNA to do anything I'm not willing to do myself.  However, CNA's are there to assist the nurses, which mean if I have something to do that is a higher priority then you are going to be asked to clean that bed, or walk that patient in the hall.  That's the CNA role.  if you don't like that role, go to nursing school or find another job.  It's just that simple.

I don't allow anyone to yell at me.  If someone is upset with me, I ask them to take it somewhere private.  I have hung up on doctors who attempted to abuse me on the phone.  I set limits on patients and family members who behave inappropriately.  If I can, I attempt to de-escalate--not always successful but I try.  Offering to listen does help when people are upset.

Even if youre a BSN theres always someone more educated and smarter than you just around the block that thinks you have the brain capcity of a gnat because youre degree is wittle bitty.  SO shut it. 

That certainly is the case with you.  Yeah, I've had docs try to talk down to me because I'm "just a nurse."  When I was still an LPN, an RN once tried to call me a "Little Pretend Nurse."  However, I treat those who have more education or experience with the respect they deserve, and expect the same in return so those issues have been few and far between.  The vast majority of my colleagues have always treated me decently and respectfully.  Even when I was still an LPN, I worked with doctors who valued my opinion because I was the best durned LPN I could possibly be while staying within my scope of practice.  That earned their respect, and that's the key.  Respect is earned.

Did I mention that I just came off a shift that was a complete cluster (insert explitive).  Our COO decided to work late...on a Sunday (Dumb@$$).  He's NEVER even BEEN in healthcare...apparently hes a financial guru though...I think hes just a parking lot beating victim waiting to happen.  Anywho, a PT fell...then he hears about it, Nurse gets chewed a new (IE) hole...then all the Techs.  Blood, sweat and tears.  Xanax for all, I would say alprazolam...but I think we deserve name brand drugs at least. 

 

It's unfortunate that many in hospital administration have no idea what it is like to work on the front lines.  Sorry to hear you had such a bad day, but really, if you are so unhappy why don't you consider a career change?  Or at least a job change?  People who stay in crappy jobs have to accept responsibility for their own unhappiness.  When I'm unhappy, I quit and get a job doing something else.  Of course, no job is perfect, but then again, I'm not dependant on Xanax to get thorugh my day.

Theala

 

I think both of you need to re-read your post/reply, edit and re-submit.  Lets take the chips off our shoulders laides. 

Anonymous says ...

where would a nurse be without her/his cna i think that they are very great under respected ppl that need a lot more acknowledgement  in  the nursing feild wtg CNA'S

Oh, I couldn't agree more.  I do think many CNAs are not given the respect they are do.  It's a hard, backbreaking job.  CNAs are the eyes and ears of the nurses.  They may not understand why something is wrong, but a good, caring, experienced CNA can often spot a problem early even if they can't explain why they think something is wrong.

I do try to reinforce to those of my students who are not CNAs just how important the CNA is.  Some, unfortunately, do a data dump on graduation.  Even some who worked as CNAs forget where they came from.

Happens in the best of professions.

Theala

Anonymous says ...

    Being a CNA is a good way to start your nursing career. I wish we didn't have to all have labels like RN, LPN, CNA....... because we are all there for the same reason...... we want to help.  Some have more compassion than others, and some have more empathy than others, some have more training than others,  but what we really need more of is respect.     

I have heard so many CNAs talk about the difficulty they have getting nurses to actually listen to them when they bring observations to him/her.      And I have seen so many nurses, in both extended care facilities and hospital settings, just ' blow it off ', when the CNA comes to them with updates on a patient.          The CNAs aren't stupid,  they know what they are seeing with their patient is a potential ( if not actual) problem.  They follow protocol and inform the charge nurse and then nothing happens.  That nurse never goes to see what the CNA is talking about, and who suffers because of that?    Definitely, the patient, but what about the CNA who cared for the patient, saw the problem, told the nurse,   went back and told the nurse AGAIN,but still gets no respect that she/he might just know what they are talking about, and either has to go to another nurse,  ( how is your charge nurse going to look at you after you do that?      be  REAL  now ), or go home feeling like she is talking to a wall.        And later, who gets the flak when the small problem has become big?  CNAs who spend the most time in direct care of the patient and who SHOULD have seen this and notified their charge nurse?       Or nurses, who say how much they love and depend on their CNAs,   but not QUITE enough to respect the CNAs judgement and observations to actually go look .

  Nurses, teach your CNAs what to watch for, listen to them when they talk to you, and give them the respect they deserve, for your patient's sake.  One person can't do it all.

Amen to this, coming from a former CNA. I have worked in various healthcare settings for almost 10 years, have worked and assist M.D's and Radiologists, by myself  without a RN supervising me. I feel, if you are working in a hospital setting, or clinic, and you are trained well, Dr.s, nurses, radiologists, respirotary therapist, and Physical therapist, and some, should trust  your knowlegde, and judgement. I have had some cocky nurses, put me down, and some put me down in front of patients, that didn't last long LOL, but look who is being effected though, not you are me, but the patient, and that's who I stand by, when I go to work.

This Cuttie speaking

Somebody said, Being a CNA is a good way to start your nursing career. I wish we didn't have to all have labels like RN, LPN, CNA....... because we are all there for the same reason...... we want to help. 

This is a partially true statement:  we all want to help, but we do need the labels because there is a tremendous difference between what nurses do and what CNAs do.  Too many of my CNA/nurse tech students fail to understand the scope of nursing practice because all they see is the task performance.  It is often not until they really understand how the body really works, and the nurse's role in the treatment of diseases and injuries that they can move beyond starting IVs, doing dressing changes, and giving meds.

Cutie said, "Amen to this, coming from a former CNA. I have worked in various healthcare settings for almost 10 years, have worked and assist M.D's and Radiologists, by myself  without a RN supervising me."

Hi Cutie!  Long time no see.  I would point out that in this CNA role, you worked under the supervision of physicans, who have their own licensure and are higher than nurses in the medical heirarchy.  You may not have been supervised by a nurse, but the physician was then responsible for your practice.  Someone supervised.

Someone else said, "Most days I would find myself with 13-16 pts while the nurses, at most, had 4 or 5. That means I was doing 16 bed baths by myself while feeding 16 people at once, and making 16 beds. Not to mention that somewhere in there I had to chart everything (thank god for computer charting)."

It's unfortunate that we've moved beyond primary nursing.  Still, the nurses you work with should be doing at least some of the baths.  Doing baths is important not just because it is still a nursing task and all nurses should perform it, but because it is the best opportunity for a nurse to get a good look at the skin.

However, one must understand the nurse has a greater role in patient care than the CNA.  The CNA's job is to assist the nurses by performing basic bedside tasks.  This is to free the nurse to perform more complicated nursing tasks that the CNA is not qualified to peform.  These include:  physical assessment medication administration, complex tasks (particularly those involving sterile equipment), evaluating data, making and implementing a plan of care, and evaluating that plan of care.  We call this the nursing process, and CNAs are not trained in this.  We are the ones who communicate with the physicians.  Our charting is far more complext than that of the CNA.  CNA's chart on I&O, vital signs, and ADLs.  Nurses chart on these, plus on medications, physical assessment by body system, response to care, and will write complex narrative notes when unexpected events occur.  Those things are beyond the CNA scope, are time consuming, and demand a high level of training and skill that CNAs don't have.

I wish more nurses treated their CNAs with respect as I value their input as members of the health care team.  But I also understand their limited scope.

Theala