I don't live in California anymore, but am very upset about prop8.  I have friends who got married during the short time it was allowed now it all seems to be for nothing.  My step brother has been in long term relationship and they were planning a big celebration which is now on hold.  I don't get any of this happening again.  This is the second time, in California this has happened.  Personally I think prop 8 should not have been on the ballot.

I believe what people do in their own lives is their own business!!!  People need to mind their own and worry more about what they are doing instead of what others are doing!!!!  The world would be a much better place.  By dening people this right does not stop them from being together or being seen in the communities, etc..  Once again who gives us the right to judge?  This is a personal decision not one to be on a ballot.  I say let people live the way they want to!!!  I say  unless it directly affects me, my family, or my money do what you do!!!!!! 

dmazment says ...

I don't live in California anymore, but am very upset about prop8.  I have friends who got married during the short time it was allowed now it all seems to be for nothing.  My step brother has been in long term relationship and they were planning a big celebration which is now on hold.  I don't get any of this happening again.  This is the second time, in California this has happened.  Personally I think prop 8 should not have been on the ballot.

 

I'm assuming you mean the 2nd time, because the first time it was on the ballot, the people still unanimously voted for it, then some apparently radical supreme court judges overturned it, then AGAIN it went before the people and won by over a million votes.  Does it not make sense in our country to uphold the will of the majority?

Now, having said that, I don't think we should legislate morality, and even though I think homosexuality is immoral, I think they have a right to conduct their lives in the manner they see fit.  I just have to figure out a good way to explain homosexuality to my nieces/nephews and grandchildren, and how will it be handled in our public schools, especially since it would then be a public law, right?  Well, it's not the worse or most complicated issue in my life, so I'm not worried about it by any means.

Finally, I use to work on an AIDS/Infectious Disease Unit in the early 80's and before we knew as much as we now do.  I thought it was tragic that "significant others" that lived together were not allowed access to their partners or to make major health care decisions or household decisions that affected them both (and especially if children were involved).  I think I have a good handle on the strengths and weaknesses of both sides of this issue, and it really is not cut and dry.  I just wish there would be more tolerance and understanding from BOTH groups.

Bottom line . . . I have no problem with voting "no" to prop 8 when it comes up again, but some of the issues need to be worked out better and people that believe as I do (IMHO - lol), should help to educate the far right about WWJD, live and let live, "free will" as given to ALL by God, and say "NO" to legislating morality.  We all should not vote on what our emotions tell us, but on what our brain off of drugs tells us.  I don't have to agree with how someone wants to live their life, but in America, we have the responsibility to ensure that no one gets their freedoms trampled and spit on.

We will have to agree to disagree on the moral/immoral issue as this is not something that can easily be discussed without fur flying, and I don't want that.  Whether we like it or not, society DOES dictate mores and taboos, and the majority elects the President and other officicials, decides on the good of the community, etc.  I don't like the choice we made in the new President-elect, but it was the will of the majority of the people and I will support and respect that choice. 

In regard to morality, I believe I've alread opined on that issue.  I don't think people should dictate other's lifestyles, especially if they do not harm society at large.  The people DO, however,  make those decisions when those choices are put before them in an election.  I don't smoke, but I was not happy when we began relegating smokers to a 2nd class citizen status; however, I did recognize the problems with second-hand smoke and that it was a health issue for those inhaling the smoke, even if they were not the ones doing the smoking, so I understood why the 'majority' wanted to outlaw smoking in public places.  I also am pro-choice, but that, again, is a morality issue.  What a woman does with her body is her business, not mine, but others do not agree, and it, again, becomes a 'majority' voting on a morality issue.

Life, unfortuantely, is not always black and white, and one group's "morality" is going to be another group's "immorality".  That's life as it has always been and will always be.  This is why we vote and why the majority, right or wrong, make the decisions.  Now, it is great to have "wise" and "fair" judges that help us interpret the Constitution and decide if these issues pass the "smell" test.  Perhaps the judges need to make the decisions BEFORE they go for a vote, then there may not have been anything to vote about.  I don't know, but these decisions are tough for everyone.

Kittyrn says ...

So let's say this passes.  Ten years from now a polygamy sect wants to legalize marriage between 1 person and multiple people, then why should they be denied?  By your own arguments, they aren't hurting anyone, they are consenting adults

 

Well, I guess I know that people DO have sex with animals, too, and what if they wanted to marry their pet pig (friendly 'pet with benefits')?  There are all kinds of scenarios that I would find immoral and repulsive, but others would accept as being perfectly 'within normal limits'.  If it's up for a vote, I'd vote against it (because I could), but they still have a right to do it privately (just don't tell me about it).  In regard to polygamy, we have to consider the inherent problems that come with that situation (for instance, the welfare of the children), division of property and kids in cases of divorce, teenage girls being required to marry much older men, etc.  So, when these come up in an election in 10 years, let's talk. 

Speculating on it now would be futile, since I believe polygamy and bestiality are still unlawful.  As early as 30 years ago, society would not have even thought of homosexual marriage as anything that even needed to be talked about, since it was not being seen by society as an accepted "alternative lifestyle".  Also, marrying a person from a different race was frowned on in the past and we have no problems with that now, generally speaking.

As a Christian, I believe that when society gets to a point where bestiality, incest, and the like are common place and accepted as "alternative lifestyles", then life as we know it will no longer exist and it will be time for God to step in on a world-wide scale.  Fortunately, I doubt I'll be here to see it happen.  What do you think?

On the lighter side,

"Brad Pitt said he will not marry Angelina Jolie until gay marriage is legal in every state".

Now, does he believe in gay marriage or does he NOT want to marry Angelina Jolie, LOL....

Maybe some of you will not find this funny, but I did.

I stand for many things, and most of all I stand for equality here in the USA.  Yet over and over again, right wing religious conservatives continually pick and choose who should have rights and who should not.  I don't know of a single gay/lesbian person who chooses to be physically attracted to the same sex.  They had no choice in the matter.  There is scientific proof of this, although there are naysayers who say it isn't proof.  Why not go out and ask any gay or lesbian you know if they chose their sexual orientation?  I also think most of you, if your child, sister, brother, cousin would be gay you'd have a very different outlook.

dmazment says ...

I stand for many things, and most of all I stand for equality here in the USA.  Yet over and over again, right wing religious conservatives continually pick and choose who should have rights and who should not.  I don't know of a single gay/lesbian person who chooses to be physically attracted to the same sex.  They had no choice in the matter.  There is scientific proof of this, although there are naysayers who say it isn't proof.  Why not go out and ask any gay or lesbian you know if they chose their sexual orientation?  I also think most of you, if your child, sister, brother, cousin would be gay you'd have a very different outlook.

Once agian I am sure you are not talking to me, because,  I have a cousin who is gay, many friends who are gay, and far from RIGHT wing religious conservative. I am an Independent and I am a moderate. I just do not believe that marrigae is for people of the same sex. I have always been for civil unions, just not marriage.

Now, I do have and therefore know, a lesbian friend who does "Choose" her sexual orientation, and admits this openly, so maybe there isn't any scientific proof?

Do I think less of them, NO, do I think I am better than them NO,  Do I believe in God, YES!!!

If you believe in God, Christianity, then the very people who want you to be tolerant are so intolerant of your beliefs.Thank God,  We live in America and so we can believe in what ever we want to believe in, and therefore VOTE accordingly...

I am not fighting with anyone, these are my views.  I was posing questions as to why some feel this is wrong etc.  I am not a christian.  It is a mistake to think everyone who posts here is a christian, has similar beliefs to christians.

I have had friends who said it was a choice, but after lengthy discussions it has always come out they knew they were different and were attracted to the same sex from a young age.  As far as bisexuality goes, usually they are attracted to one sex more than than another, so in a sense they do make some type of choice.  However, for the vast majority of those who are gay/lesbian they do not have a choice. 

Please do not take my choice of words or style of writing as being anything other than a discussion.  I am not one to shout anyone down but I will give my views.  When I direct a question or comment directly to a particular person, then take whatever I say as a direct comment, but I really do try hard not to single any one person out.

For the most part, what is marraige but a civil union?

I haven't thought anyone has been mean, hateful or trying to pick a fight on this discussion, so all is well with me.  I do speak my mind and don't often flower it all up, but I am a very loving and kind person, so I don't want anyone thinking that just because I don't agree means that I have any kind of an agenda or am trying to be mean-spirited.  Actually, compared to other forums, I think this one seems to be quite sedate (but maybe I've not seen all the political stuff, eh?).  LOL!!  We're cool, right?

I will just challenge this, child molesters have been saying forever that they "just can't help it", they are attracked to children. Should we as a society just turn the other way as long as they do not get a hold of our OWN??? Let's face it, saying you can't help it, anyone can say that, the murderers, child molestors, etc...

Now, I know that I have made some of you angry wtih this, and that is truely not my intention, but saying,  Just ask any gay/lesbian if they can help it, is just not proof of anything.

There are alot of things that I have done in my life, that are clearly wrong, but no one would have given me a break based on the statement" I just can't help it." I will try it next time though and see if it works.. LOL

Seriously though, I love gay/lesbian people, have them in my life. But there needs to be more proof than a statement like the one above to prove anything to me, and many others...

jenny, actually the scriptures say 'sabbath' and the 'sabbath' as correctly followed by seventh day adventists and jews is 'Saturday'. 

Anyhow, getting back to the original thought, have any of you followed my link...to the NAMBLA organization....this law will be opening a huge Pandora's box that would never be able to be fixed.  Gay unions is one thing, but marriage needs to be narrowly defined as one man and one woman, or it's going to lead the laws in this country down a very slippery slope.  Polygamists will argue equal rights, NAMBLA will argue equal rights. 

Jenny God loves everyone! He loves the sinner, just hates the sin.  I don't know if you have kids, but it's the same principle, You love your kids, you just don't love or approve of all their actions.

JUDLEERN says ...

Kittyrn says ...

So let's say this passes.  Ten years from now a polygamy sect wants to legalize marriage between 1 person and multiple people, then why should they be denied?  By your own arguments, they aren't hurting anyone, they are consenting adults.

This will happen you watch and see.

My guide to morality and immorality is the living word of God, the Bible. However, I am a tolerant person. Marriage is designed by God to be between one women and one man, period.

Now, if you do not believe in what God says, than you can have it anyway you want it, anyway the homosexuals want it, the Polygismist want it, and it won't end there.

You must stand for something or you will fall for anything... I am not sure who said this, but it says it all...

Good post judleern..............I do agree; but at the same time I feel for those who only wish to be legally acknowledged as a married couple.  With all the pork barrel, hidden agenda crap in politics..........no wonder Kittyrn thought this could happen with this as well.  I see it too, but I sure do admit I know next to nothing about this actual issue on the CA ballot. 

To whom it may concern: LOL

I believe that gay, straight, murderer, child molestor all can be saved by our Savior and go to heaven.

 Jesus states " Go now and sin no more".  So therefore if we follow the Bible and believe it to be the true Word of God, homosexuallity is forbidden...

This is for those of us who are Christian, since I am aware not all of us are.