NurseJenny;  I'm sorry that all that happened to you.  God loves you, and my heart breaks for you.  Thank-you for sharing your story.  RNprogressive is right, there are many of us that support you. 

Jenny, I am very sorry for the things  you have had to endure growing up for no one should....I can and do understand your decision, and any female that has gone thru what you have had to endure understands......being a victim of such myself (yes, I was, as well as my mother growing up) I can and do understand.....although I would have done something different, I do understand......no one should have had to endure what you did.......things always happen for a reason......get counseling.....it will help.......things that happened to you was not your fault......try to find forgiveness in your heart for that will help also......

GApeachRN says ...

nurseaisha says ...

Speaking of being proud, if so many females are proud of their decision, then why not scream from the rooftops how incredibly wonderful their abortion experiences have been?  Why hide behind the claok of choice?  Why not share this fantastic "truth" with everyone so we can all know it?  Why?  Because it is anything but wonderful.  These people should be ashamed.  I don't blame them for hiding it.

Furthermore, I noticed you did not address the issue with PPIN.  If the truth shall set you free, then let's tell the WHOLE truth. 

Imagine what you would say to somone that had the guts to stand up and defend the fact that she had an abortion? Kittyrn merely shared her story and her choice. She didn't even have an abortion and some of the ppl in here all but burned her at the stake. In my opinion this whole issue is about choice.  Pro-lifers condemn women for choosing to have an abortion, but it is their choice.  Would you like it if the government left you with no choice but to have an abortion?  You don't want to have an abortion and you're free to make that choice.  Some women deem them necessary and that is their choice.  I feel that children are gifts from God and that life is precious, but God also gave each of us the gift of thought and free-will.  We all exercise this free-will everyday and we all have to make choices, some more difficult than others.  Kittyrn thanks for sharing your story and I support you.  I know it couldn't have been an easy option to even consider, but ultimately you were considering the best interests of your unborn child.  Women who have abortions or consider them are more than a statistic.  They have feelings and they have their own unique circumstances surrounding their choices.  Not every women having an abortion is some promiscious 18 year old that just doesn't want to be saddled with the responsibility of raising a child.  There are medigating circumstances to every story and if we took the time to know all of these stories maybe our hearts would be a little softer toward these women.  Abortion is, I'm sure, a very difficult choice for many that choose to have them. 

I was not responding, or having a conversation with Kittyrn, so I think you have me confused with someone else. 

I don't have to imagine what I would say to someone who was woman enough to stand up  and have the "guts" to TRY to defend the fact that she had an abortion.  I am poised and ready to go. 

This argument is NOT about choice.  The pro abortion choice argument, as I've said numerous times, is TIRED, PLAYED OUT!  Is this the best argument there is to support abortion, the MURDER of an innocent HUMAN BEING?  You're gonna have to come a bit bigger than this to convice me.

I find it comical that God is used in a pro abortion argument, for obvious reasons that any reasonably intelligent person would be able to figure out.

I have never stated that every female who has an abortion is a promiscuous 18 year old, actually, it's far from that.   There are plenty of established females who choose to kill their children in the womb as well.

Exactly what type if mitigating circumstances can possibly make an abortion seem less horrific than what it actually is?  What could possibly make the dismemberment of a child less painful?  What could possibly make the burning of a saline solution less harsh?  How do we, as a society, possibly validate the fact that millions of children have their brains sucked out of their skulls while STILL ALIVE, that perfectly formed little ones are left to die alone with no comfort measures, no one to hold them, keep them warm, show them any type of love at all?  Are their lives somehow less important than anyone walking the face of the earth at this very moment?  No, but we have strict laws against murder, and even attempted murder, yet we allow females the "right" to murder their own children under the cloak of choice.  How shameful.

Jenny, I wasn't replying to your post.  I specifically DID NOT reply to your post for obvious reasons.  I am not trying to scare anyone, and unfortunately, abortions are performed the way I described.  I would agree it is graphic, and also that some may find it uncomfortable to read or imagine.  Perhaps you should learn more about partial and live birth abortions then you will have a better understanding of late term abortions.  Again, I was NOT replying to your post nor did I even mention your post.  Furthermore, assumptions can be very bad.  You have no idea what I have been through or been faced with, so think before you assume that I have never faced with what you have.  Simply because I choose not to share it does not mean it has not happened.  Incidentally, this could be the very reason why I am as passionate as I am about this subject.

Nursejenny1310 says ...

I know plenty about partial and live abortions don't belittle my knowledge, I also know they are the exception to the law and don't happen every time the way you would have people believe. I assume because you act so sure of your hate for anyone who does this, no matter the reason, or the timing.  The reason I said what I did is because i think it unneccasary to continualy give those graphic descriptions over and over again. We all know what happens and how in those cases. We all also know why we feel the way we feel about it. We including you. And furthermore, sounds like the quote below WAS directed at me, and every other woman who has done so. The right to choose has been taken way out of hand I will give you that. But I believe keeping the law in place is the right thing to do, just because the case like mine happens EVERYDAY!!!!!!! I would not wish that on anyone. And I also think that if people want to take this right to choose to the extreme and use it for their own convienence, than there is not a darn thing you, or I or anyone can do about it. They will have their judgment day, as will I. I ant imagine what will happen to those girls if this right is taken away, and I don't think it fair we should have to find out.

"I don't have to imagine what I would say to someone who was woman enough to stand up  and have the "guts" to TRY to defend the fact that she had an abortion.  I am poised and ready to go."

Jenny, I hope you are on the path to healing and that the nightmares will cease for you. You deserve to have peace of mind and heart.

As you have seen, there are those on here who would never find abortion acceptable for any reason. Rape, incest, Stage III cervical cancer ~ no matter, just accept it as God's will.

Abortion is a woman's health issue. If she chooses to use abortion to save her own life or even as a means of birth control, who on this earth is qualified to act as judge and jury? Somehow there are people who feel qualified to be the voice of God. They cannot come down from their soapbox long enough to be a nurse for a patient that needs them, and that is sad.

Incidentally, if you (and by you I DO NOT mean any one specific!!!) don't like the pro life argument, or simply can't take the heat that this type of discussion generates, then create a pro abortion thread....there you (again, no one specific) will find plenty of individuals who support the cause.

Once again, spoken like the "genius" that you are!  I just love ya to pieces, Captain!

Clarify for us when the fetus becomes a human being?  What is it to be human?  Is it DNA, a beating heart, cognition, what?  Is it a human being at conception. implantation, as a zygote. when? What makes us human?  What if it is part of the master plan that the fetus is aborted to allow the "mother " to learn a lesson from this act.  It was previously stated that women would need to carry fetus to term even if they have invasive cervical cancer, ectopic preg etc because it was God's plan.  And yes there is a whole school of belief that suffering is essential to experience in our lives to know what good is etc. So if the fetus is aborted and if it has suffered is this not part of the Plan?   Would they not have suffered for a reason larger that you or I can know? Are you disrupting the creator's plan both for the fetus and for those who are impacted by the abortion.

Is the egg and sperm individually a potential human so any loss of eggs or sperm is a crime?  That kind of puts adolescent boys, all of them in jail for sure!  "Every Sperm is Sacred"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9002085385040727366

catty0009 says ...

I have sat back and actually been quiet the last few days.....RNProgressive, you sit and stated that we pro-lifers are ready to cast the 1st stone and be judgemental......and then you tell jenny that you hoped that her father and uncle were both in jail or in hell.....someone (such as me) can actually say that is being judgemental.......what they did was not right and I surely dont condone it for I have been a victim of what she went thru as well.....we talk about illness and taking care of our patients.......we all know that it is an illness and yes, although they need help and I could and would love to put a bullet between their eyes, I am not their judge, but you are judging them for what they did......

 

jenny, I am sorry to say, but aisha is correct when she describes the fetus being torn apart as well as the inhumane ways of completing an abortion  and the usage of a suction machine.....OR how they will inject the fetus with a carcinogenic that will kill the infant so it can be delivered........doesnt matter at what stage an abortion is performed at, for the procedure is basically the same.....you said you knew all about the partial and live abortions.....I have seen many a film while they are performing an actual abortion and the fact that the fetus does what it can to get away from the needle that is inserted into amniotic sac once the cervix has been dilated....the fact of the matter is, the end result is still the same.....an innocent life is taken...

I have a friend right now that would love to have kids but she cant....not because she had an abortion at an early age that caused scarring, but she is infertile...never had an abortion......the majority of the time those that cant have any children after an abortion is due to the scarring that takes place...the majority of females that end up having an abortion are those that cant or feel they cant be tied down for it will interfere with their lives as they know it and it is a total disgrace to those that would love to have kids but cant.......my oldest boy's mom couldnt take care of him....I took the boy in when he was 13 and finished raising him.......he will be 19 this aug...

  

I know she is correct, I never said she wasnt. But that is simply reffering to late term abortions. If there was a way to make sure women were not using this a birth control, or out of an inconvienence to them than I would be for it, but I will never be for making it illegal in all cases no matter what. Father and brother by the way. And yes it is judgemental to hate them, but we are human beings, we are not perfect and part of that imperfection is being judgemental. DO NOT deny that you are not judgemental, we all are on a daily basis. We may not like to admit that but it is the truth. The greater good idea does not and has never felt right to me. So "the majority" argument does not work, for me any way.

I am all for opinions, never said I wasnt. I dont feel like any side is more or lesss judgemental than the other. I know this is a debate and that everyone feels the way they do, and will "fight it to the death". ANd I am ok with that. I am not saying at this point that anyone was targeting me specifically. This is a disscusion board, for everyone to put in their veiws. I put in my two cents, and gave more when I felt necessary. Some of you have said you relate to my situation, and I am sorry, it is a very hard thing to deal with. But if it were full on the same I doubt we would be having this discussion at all.  I don't judge you for feeling the way you do, I have never implied I have. I commend  you all for feeling so strongly in your beliefs. I am here at this thread titled OBAMA AND ABORTION to out my two cents in. If it were titled pro life I would not have visited. I will not be making a pro choice discussion as you suggested as I find it is not necesary.

RNprogressive says ...

Catty 0009 stated:

..its not Gods plan for any living being to suffer...

See Book of JOB in Christian Bible an entire book of the Bible dedicated to explaining why suffering is necessary.  See suffering of Jesus in deciding to follow will of God as well as lead up to crucifixion. Persacution of the apostles Etc.

No not every woman would need to miscarry to feel the suffering of the loss of a child only those who need to learn the lesson in that manner.  Others of us have our suffering other ways, illness, amputation, loss of eyesight, abusive parent etc. 

Catt009 stated:

what happens when  you take a living organism/human and takes the literal breath out of it..

fetus do not have a breath to be taken out of it if it is not viable it cannot breathe on it's own and I'm not talking about infants old enough to survive on ventilation although if they have severe abnormalities that they will die from in a short time anyway that is another discussion of allowing suffering to continue.  No I'm not advocating euthanasia only natural causes.

By the way the video clip is Hilarious. The point of the clip is not that it only takes one sperm to make it to fertilize an egg, but how do we know which sperm is the one-- therefore isn't every Sperm potentially the one to make the human clump of cells that maybe implanted?

Nurse Jenny--Don't let the majority of this thread fool you, all these folks jumping up and down to outlaw abortion are the same ones over on the universal healthcare site believing Big Brother wants to take over our healthcare and run all their lives.  They want it both ways, the government to control women's choice and ultimately reproductive choice for all and the government to stay out of their healthcare and their taxes and their lives in general. Smaller gov, less regulation etc.     They are very conflicted and it is not easy to broaden their horizons.  I appreciate your views.

First things first, I AM NOT posting in the Universal Healthcare forum, so that blows your theory out of the water.  I can also tell you that I am MOST DEFINITELY NOT conflicted, in any way shape or form.  There you go again with your assumptions.  I do not consider murdering children in utero "broadening my horizons".

Secondly, let's start using the correct terminology here.....BABY....BABY....BABY.....please explain WHY when a woman is pregnant and she WANTS her child it is a BABY, but when she isn't sure or aborts it is now somehow only a "fetus".  I understand this is the medical terminology, and I also understand that this is what helps people sleep at night, however let's be realistic about what we are talking about....these are BABIES that are being murdered everyday, not globs of tissue.

Next, if you scream for reproductive choice, make those choices PRIOR to conception.  Evidently CaptainEric's posts have been overlooked.  Reread them, he makes a VERY VALID point when it comes to the ridiculous pro abortion argument of choice.

Last, it is true that a child in the womb is not breathing air, however, they have a heartbeat.  I have asked you before, if we stop your heartbeat, what happens to you?  I believe you die.  Point made.  I would also like to point out that even a child who is born, fully from the womb, is still technically not viable.  If you place a live newborn in a garbage bin with no food, water, shelter, it will most certainly perish.  Even a newborn infant NEEDS, REQUIRES a caregiver, if not they starve or die from exposure.  Furthermore, my 9 year old would not be able to care for herself in the way that an adult can care for her, but does that somehow make her life less important or meaningless?  Of course not.  When a woman kills her already born children, we are horrified, we can't believe it!  We cry out for justice, and rightfully so, but somehow, as a "civilized" society we have become completely numb to so many things.  There is rarely shock value in the behaviors of our citizens.  Auditorily, visually, not much takes us by surprise anymore.  I am wondering, how, as a "civilized" nation we somehow have become so insensitive to the lives of those who need us the most.  How we somehow became OK with the murder of innocent people in the most horrible ways possible.  Most would tell you that they are appalled by the actions of Hitler, his brutality against the Jews, and also other religious groups including Jehovah's Witnesses, however, some of these same people have no problem with the slaughter of innocent children in the womb.  The hypocarcies surrounding abortion and the ideas of abortion are some of the worst I have seen and heard.

RNprogressive says ...

Previous post states:  with out a heartbeat you die..

CPR101  if I have a heartbeat without oxygenation I will be brain dead and will be an organ donor.  Dead is dead.  Heartbeat without oxygenation is not a fully functioning human being.  Therefore some form of adequate respiration is required of the fetus. 

Absolutely make contraceptive choices before conception if at all possible, unless contraception is restricted in your area or unfunded or you are raped etc.  A portion of the movement you support looks to restrict women's access to reproductive care unless it is a rhythm method.  Can we agree on birth control pills and access for all women?    Is there common ground here at all?

Great article thoughtful and bridgebuilding for the future of this debate from Beliefnet a multi denominational think tank.  Give and take on both sides of this discussion and a reframing of the issue.

http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2009/04/safe-legal-early---...

Dead is dead...I agree 100% and without a heartbeat you die, with or without oxygen.  If you have heartbeat without oxygenation, you won't have one for long.  And I am not including artificial means of respiration. I do not know anyone who is walking this planet right now without a beating heart. 

I have stated several times before that I personally do not have issues with contraception.  PREVENTING conception, because once it has happened we are dealing with a life.  I most certainly support women being responsible and taking precautions, as I do men, because let's be honest it takes two to create a child. 

I'm sure any rational healthcare professional will agree that an ectopic pregnancy, cannot, will not, won't ever be able to be carried to term.  In many instances these pregnancies result in spotaneous abortion, and in other instances they do not.  When this is the case obvious medical intervention is needed.  However, these are not the cases we are discussing here.  We are talking about abortion on demand, for ANY reason, any RIDICULOUS reason a female can conjure up. 

"I'm sure any rational healthcare professional will agree that an ectopic pregnancy, cannot, will not, won't ever be able to be carried to term."   INCORRECT, on a very rare occasion there are 100% documented cases of live births via C-section.   My point is, where do we draw the line?.  My Mother, is probably one of the most religious people I know, and even she supports abortion in cases of incest, rape,  and danger to mother's life.

I have a cousin  "J", who gave birth to a child with some type of enzyme defect.  Her child 'Molly', lived to be 20 years old.  She was fed her WHOLE life via peg tube.  Molly never spoke or walked.  She spent her entire life at home, in diapers, mouth open and seizing daily....Her mental retardation was one of the most SEVERE that I have ever seen.  She went from being strapped in a specially made wheelchair to keep her from contracting to lying in the fetal position in a bed.  This child was trapped in a living hell.  If she was in pain, no one knew it, if she had an itch no one knew it, (how could she tell you) and if she was seizing it was only stopped when it was noticed by someone who would give her  a valium suppository.  While 'J' had visiting nurses twice a week and was a caring and attentive mother, she watched her child slowly die for 20 years.   I WOULD NEVER bring a child intentionally into this world to live that kind of life.  There are worse things then being dead.

Kittyrn says ...

"I'm sure any rational healthcare professional will agree that an ectopic pregnancy, cannot, will not, won't ever be able to be carried to term."   INCORRECT, on a very rare occasion there are 100% documented cases of live births via C-section.   My point is, where do we draw the line?.  My Mother, is probably one of the most religious people I know, and even she supports abortion in cases of incest, rape,  and danger to mother's life.

I have a cousin  "J", who gave birth to a child with some type of enzyme defect.  Her child 'Molly', lived to be 20 years old.  She was fed her WHOLE life via peg tube.  Molly never spoke or walked.  She spent her entire life at home, in diapers, mouth open and seizing daily....Her mental retardation was one of the most SEVERE that I have ever seen.  She went from being strapped in a specially made wheelchair to keep her from contracting to lying in the fetal position in a bed.  This child was trapped in a living hell.  If she was in pain, no one knew it, if she had an itch no one knew it, (how could she tell you) and if she was seizing it was only stopped when it was noticed by someone who would give her  a valium suppository.  While 'J' had visiting nurses twice a week and was a caring and attentive mother, she watched her child slowly die for 20 years.   I WOULD NEVER bring a child intentionally into this world to live that kind of life.  There are worse things then being dead.

I said "carried to TERM".  Were these FULL TERM ectopic pregnancies you're referring to?  Probably not.

Your cousin should be commended.  She was, and I'm sure still is, a heroic woman.

" I said "carried to TERM".  Were these FULL TERM ectopic pregnancies you're referring to?  Probably not."

What does it matter if they were carried to term?  It resulted in LIVE birth of a normal healthy infant?  I mean you of all people who argue that an abortion results in the 'death of a child'.....are you saying they should have did a late term abortion?  hmmm,