I wish I had authored the below quote but it is a written by Joseph Galloway, a senior writer at US NEWS and WORLD REPORT,  THIS  is regards to Vietnam Veterans

  "What I want to say now is just between us, because America still doesn't' get it, still doesn't know the truth, and the truth is you are the cream of the crop of our generation, the best and finest of an entire generation of Americans.  You are the ones who answered when you were called to serve.  You are the ones who fought bravely and endured a terrible war in a terrible place.  You are the ones for whom the words duty, honor, country have real meaning because you lived those words and the meaning behind those words.  You are my brothers in arms, and I am not ashamed to say that I love you.  I would not trade one of you for a whole trainload of instant Canadians; or a whole boatload of Rhodes Scholars bound for England, or a whole campus full of guys who turned up for their draft physicals wearing pantyhose."

Thank you all for your support!

No I wasn't trying to call names. I said it was something an ignorant ( = uninformed) bigot ( = prejudiced against a group) would say. I didn't think it was an intentional insult, just out of ignorance of what the veterans back then were really like. Many people made that kind of judgment back then.

I knew very few guys who used drugs at all, and sure, some heavy drinking, but not by a majority by any means.

Well, again, thank you all!

your friend,

Rick - Captain, Judge Advocate

7th CA regiment, NY

One thing Maggie, you seem like a smart level headed person, we disagree on the universal healthcare, but  that is alright, a lot of people disagree. Read your original post back. You did not say that the two men told you they did it to themselves, all you said was they were Vietnam vets who probably did their share of drinking, drugging and you know what else.  I do not think you meant to generalize about the Vietnam vets, but you can see how it looked. I am a Vietnam vet Maggie and I accept your explanation.

     the solution would be to invite everyone to join medicare .  we already have  a system in place for the elderly lets just expand that system to cover everyone .  well alright maybe not everyone. no super duper old people no fat people no smokers drinkers or illegal people.  no people already on the dough and no politicians! how does this sound?  how do you like paying taxes? i hope you like it a LOT!!!

actually i thought a bit more about my solution and by excluding all those people old ,fat, illegal ,politicians and other gov workers that cost of the care would be quite affordable.  since most of the cost of healthcare that we have now is used in covering these groups of people by eliminating them in our coverage we would actually have money to care for those who really need it. the problem is no one wants to be the one to tell the old , fat , illegal  people they can't have coverage anymore!! oh and ps we are all paying for those loser politicans healthcare  and i'm told that they are covered for LIFE! how does that grab you. Yell all you want but change is only made by calling your reps and letting them in on your disgust for their lack of vision and selfishness.

Congressmen, Senators, etc are paid government employees, and therefore entitled to healthcare.  Do you think that all Americans are entitled to the same benefits as paid government employees?

  KittyRN:

  I did'nt say anything about FREE Gov healthcare,I'm referring to a Gov Healthcare OPTION,whichI think we need for many reasons,one of my primary being to provide more choice & competition for these Health Insurence Co.'s that are running the show at this point.As I've said many times,the proverbial,"Fox in the Chicken Coop", scenerio is outrageous in lieu of the cases I've seen coverage denied on.Seemy last post for my current peds pt denied coverage.

  Incidentally,re my comment about Congressional access to Insurence,I said members of Congress get PRIMO health Insurence,my point being that is far exceeds in quality anything the ave employee or Gov. Employee gets.

 The Healthcare Insurence Exec making decisions about an individuals coverage(what they'll cover and not cover) has to be stopped NOW,somehow.Just wait until (hopefully it never happens)one of us has a scenario with ourselves or our kids,where time sensitive coverage is denied,or significantly held up,and ya have to pay out of pocket for care.You may have a different perspective then,as I do now,if you see that happen.

Some good Gov competition I beleive have a domino effect and force the Health Ins industry to change  such policies,and become competitive,which,sorry, but they are not now.

Does'nt anyone else see this/experienced this as a major conflict of interest? Seriously,would this be allowed in any other industry?

WHY is it allowed now?!It called LOBBY($$) power,the same reason the Health Insurence co's get away with not covering pre existingconditions...I won't get started on that one

-sarah

I totally agree with you Kittyrn.  Very well said!!  I'm an adult and I don't feel that I need government telling me what I can and cannot do.  I have done a good job handling my affairs up until this point.  We can't always go for the jobs that we want, sometimes we have to go for the ones that offer the benefits that we need.  My husband stayed at a job that he didn't always like, because the pay and benefits were what we needed.   

no one is entitled to anything. this has been the problem from the get go.  just because you work for the gov does not mean you should have health care! not even nurses can get it just cause they work for a hospital or doctor. i don't see how we can afford to offer coverage to everyone when not everyone works .  i have seen people with no money and no citizenship whisk into the ER and get surgery, meds and a week or two stay in the hospital after getting chased down by the Border Patrol and flippin their car on the interstate trying to get away.  we have been giving it away free too long and to the wrong people ! this is a problem we have caused ourselves by being uninvolved . now we ARE paying attention but its too late.  no one likes the alternatives but i say expand the current system we have now to cover those 45million who are "truely needy" as obama would say. if they don't like the gov in their face too bad its too late to be picky.

Oh my, the compassionate chorus of the "I got mine too bad about yours",  All of you smug employed, married nurses with your wonderful health plans are one catastrophic event away from realizing how bad private health insurance is these days.  What if you or your spouse die and you only have one insurance plan to use?  Then you or your surviving spouse are diagnosed with a serious illness or a traumatic injury requiring you to lose your job and go on disability.  Coverage evaporates over time away from a job and if you think that 1 million dollar cap on a policy takes a long time to run through think again.  I had a patient, a female executive in a large corporation get burned over 80% of her body in an accident, 2nd and 3rd degree burns.  She had wokred for her corporation 15 years and always paid her premiums. Multiple surgeries, infections etc the usual for a burn this size she was finally ready, one year after her accident for facial plastic surgery so she could have a nose, an ear, repair her eye lid you know all that stuff you lovelies take for granted.  The day before her surgery the social worker came to us to tell us her insurance cap of $1million dollars had been reached now she would have to apply for medicare and of course get probono plastics from whoever had time to do it.  Yeah I was in the room when we had to tell her, that was 8 years ago and it still brings tears to my eyes.  She would have cried too but she didn't have fully operating tear ducts. Instead the sound was of a wail of her final hope evaporating.  That is the product of private Health insurance.

It is a social justice issue.  What would Jesus, Jehova, Mohammad, Buddah do?  Only provide health care to those who can work? Or provide preventitive, and catastropjic care for all.  Most of you who post against this idea of coverage for all and especially our children are over on the Anti-choice post proclaiming the sanctity of every life and end to abortion.  Well then, if social justice is your cause anti up my friends-adjust your views and be consistent.  

Yes and quit the sky is falling no one will get  care== you won't get to see your doctor etc.  Access to care is terrible now and you don't always get to see your doctor unless you bloody well have a lot of money to pay for iti. e a bloated health plan read the fine print on coverage.  Let's have a national referendum on best practices, stop the excessive testing, institute secure electronic health records so everyone has portible medical records, track nationally people's perscriptions to prevent over medication and side effects.  Let's institute preventitive medicine from cradle to grave.  Let's exercise more and eat less and take National pride in our level of fitness instead of joy of gluttony we see everyday.

Oh yes time for a change.  Get on board, please or get left behind.

Banking system wasn't over regulated, car manufacturing wasn't over regulated, food industry isn't over regulated all private enterprise and all hurting the American people.  I never said anything about COBRA so I miss your point. The governmetn is broke because of a prior administration who  deregulated many things and took no bid government contracts.  However, the current plan does not call for scrapping the entire system if you have listened to the president or gone to White House.gov etc.  They want a public option-- if you are happy with your insurance keep it if not there is a new competitor in town.  I retired from the military and have had government helathcare most of my adult life as well as private insurance with my civilian jobs.  TheI differences are minor and  actually I find military healthcare superior.  Well trained physicians on a salary with decent hours and continuing medical education.  They do have a lot of liability issues removed under the umbrella of their employer I would agree to this in any program out there.  Also MD's need outside enforcement of ethics and reimbursement issues to prevent fraud in medicare medicaid. 

Self care is encouraged and people are educated on how to take care of themselves with OTC remedies etc.  Every cold does not need antibiotics neither does every ear ache. 

Lastly, lets look at futility of care.  I have intensivist friends who are made to keep terminally ill elderly alive because the family wants them to die after a family member's birthday 4 months away. Or they simply can't come to terms with the individual's death.  We need to educate Americans on the way to die, death with dignity, dying at home, better hospice etc.  Many of our healthcare cost are spent on futile care hurting the patient and limiting access to others who can't get a bed for a recoverable malady.  Hard to accept but there is a need to develope best practices and outcomes.  Healthcare is a limited resource, based on staffing, equipment, monies etc.

Sarahndipity and RNProgressive, you both are so right on.    KittyRN, you said that  "Congressmen, Senators, etc are paid government employees, and therefore entitled to healthcare.  Do you think that all Americans are entitled to the same benefits as paid government employees?"  I think that all working americans are entitled to the same quality and affordable benefits as paid government employees.  Those who cannot work because of some disability  come under medicaid or medicare anyway.  I'm getting the impression that many responding to these posts think that wanting healthcare reform is tantamount to wanting free healthcare.  This is unrealistic.  I would like reasonable premiums.  When I had healthcare benefits thru my employer (job ended in January) I was paying $385.00 a month for myself alone.   I mentioned  a few posts back that when I called BC/BS last week for individual coverage they quoted $3100.00 per month as the guaranteed rate (I have a pre-exiting condition).   Do you think that something needs to be done? In the case of health care, when you put profit making up against what's best for the individual, guess what's going to lose out every time?

rn progressive:  you want to kick people out of the hospital so the beds can clear out?  I think if the person taking that bed has coverage that will fund that bed, leave her/him alone and the others can get in line.  The the person wanting that bed could very well have no insurance, or be an illegal allien.   Ive been reading posts on this, link and its amazing.  There is alot of hostility when those who are lacking benefits are angry at those who do have benefits.  Why be mad?  You seem to have a chip on your shoulder.  You made a comment about 'nurses who have their great insurance and are married'.............HUGE CHIP and I dont know anybody here.  Whats wrong with setting goals?  Why should people who made goals in life and met them pay for the benefits for people who made poor decisions.  I realize that people are sick, its sad the way things are as is, and I realize it might well have nothing to do with decisions.

Healthcare is a limited resource, like water. It has to be managed but not by coprorations, the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.  I am married with coverage and not carrying a chip on my shoulder.  I have always worked for my benefits.  But I grew up where my Dad died when I was 9 and my mother with severe Rheumatoid arthritis had to work to take care of me, there was no safety net.  Small social security and some life insurance and savings.  We lived in rural Pennsylvania.  At any time my momcould have gotten so sick she could no longer have helped us.  Ultimately she got her Accounting degree at night and a good job with a natural gas company in Colorado where we had moved.  At 51 she was goiing to be living a better life, I was 19.  Then she got breast cancer, luckily had good coverage from her then employer and died 6 months later.  The was 1978, that wouldn't happen that way today due to managed care.  We are all one major illness away from foreclosure, indebtedness, bankruptcy.  Those are the facts.  You don't need to be afraid of change you need to be afraid of doing nothing.  The GOP wants you afraid and angry and kept in the dark so they can manipulate you.  Don't fall for it. that is how we got where we are today.  Turn off Fox walk towards the light... I am very aware of the effects of illegal immigration on the healthcare system having lived in the desert southwest for 10 years.  Yes lets get illegal immigration under control but healthcare can't wait for that to happen.  Next year immigration.

No I don't want to kick people out of beds but I don't want to continue futile care either.  Do you? For the money?  I didn't think so.

RNprogressive says ...

...They want a public option-- if you are happy with your insurance keep it if not there is a new competitor in town. 

That is not a bad idea, but I do not want my taxes paying for another government program.  The government seems to enjoy throwing money at problems and taxes are high enough as it is.

I am glad to see you back on RNprogressive. We really disagree on this subject, but I always enjoy a lively discussion.