Unions had a place in the US back around the early 1900's when workers had no say in their jobs. For the most part that has changed as more and more companies actively want employee suggestions. I do not think that unions are needed now, especially in health care.  Unions always seem to protect the workers who are lazy and do not do their jobs. The thought of a strike by nurses is scary to me. I would not ever go out on strike and abandon my patients.

Wake up and smell the C-Diff. What other profession is there where you routinely dont get a lunch 1/2 hour or a decent break, what other profession works you hours past your shift one day and then calls you off the next day for low census, what other profession forces you to renew a license every two years and then can yank your livelyhood for even a minor screw up, what other profession  holds you accountable for something that you did or something that you failed to do.  What other profession are you accountable to everyone and anyone regarding their aunt, uncle, mother, brother, sister, 2nd cousin twice removed and finally what other profession requires you to drop everything in the middle of a code so that your "customers"  concerns over their gravy on their meatloaf dinner is cold. I realize that there is dead wood in a union setting but there is  dead wood even without the union setting, some people are  worthless regardless of the union. Finally I would love to have a union on my side when the manager comes down hard on you. I have been there and its no fun when you have to justify everything you did or didnt do to a manager that never comes out of the office to see how things are going. There needs to be MORE nursing unions because after all we are the ones that basically make the place go. Oh and by the way the DR's have a union........................its called the AMA

gaby133 says ...

Nurse_John says ...

Unions had a place in the US back around the early 1900's when workers had no say in their jobs. For the most part that has changed as more and more companies actively want employee suggestions. I do not think that unions are needed now, especially in health care.  Unions always seem to protect the workers who are lazy and do not do their jobs. The thought of a strike by nurses is scary to me. I would not ever go out on strike and abandon my patients.

I agree and most strikes are related to worker's pay and/or benefits. Nursing would not be a place for strikes because we are dealing with human life. You don't like the pay, benefits, working conditions you can ask your director for more and if you don't get anything just change jobs. There is such a shortage for nurses that it is almost imposible not to find the right job for yourself.

Gaby,

I strongly disagree.  While many strikes in the auto industry, and other "blue collar jobs" were about this in the 70's and 80's, this has never been the case with nursing.  Nursing strikes are seldom about pay or benefits, and almost always about working conditions and patient safety.

Unions provide valuable protection from abusive managers.  I've been a member of 2 nursing unions:  the California Nurse's Association (CNA) in California, and the United Food and Commercial Workers Union (which has a nursing division) when I worked corrections in Delaware.

The UFCW stood up for me when an unscrupulous manager tried to fire me when I reported an inappropriate relationship between a nurse and an inmate trustee in the prison hospital.  Without the union, I would have been royally screwed.

The CNA successfully lobbied for and got passed the Patient Safety Act in California that mandated nurse to patient ratios to protect patients from facilities who were understaffing units.  They took on Ahhnold when he bent over for the hospital lobby and tried to block implementation of the law.  Their organizing efforts put a hard hit on his public image and popularity, and the courts gave him a firm smackdown.  The law is now in effect.  I was still working in California when the ratios went into effect.  The impact on patient safety and nursing morale was nothing short of astounding.  Things got sooo much better.

Nurses' strikes don't have much of an impact on patient care.  When a nurses union does strike, the facilities hire scabs to work the strikes and big huge bucks for them.  One strike in San Francisco lasted well over a year, yet you wouldn't know it.  The hospital is still there, patients still got great care from the RNs who came in to deliver care while the local RNs fought for their rights.

Now hospital organizations in other states, especially anti-union states like North Carolina (where I live now) are quaking in their boots because they realize that if nurses strike, the hospital can't win.  Their efforts are focused on keeping the CNA from expanding nationally through their National Nurse Organizing Committee (NNOC).  They succeeded in North Carolina (for now), but failed in Illinois.

It is true that if you don't like your job, it is pretty easy to vote with your feet---in most of the country.  It is NOT true in North Dakota (lived there 2 years, they have a surplus of nurses and can afford to treat them like shit), and not true even in some places that still have shortages, like North Carolina.  Two of my local hospital organizations are hemmoraghing money because of poor management decisions and are trying to hold costs with hiring freezes.  And many nurses have husbands whose jobs are not as mobile making them less willing to vote with their feet--the hospital feels empowered to take advantage of their staff as a result.

Unions are important tools in the fight for decent working conditions, decent pay, and to protect patient safety.  I urge all nurses to support unions.

 When I became a nurse I wasvery involved i the labor movement.  But time and time and lots of experience has taught me well.  zUnions do not make change in health care, unions protect the disgruntled poor practitioner.  example latest Ca. nrsg. board.  Why do you think that the poor practioners are still out there, grievances are filed, time is wasted, nurses that do not belong on the job remain there.  Unions breed mediocrity, we are not all equal in our performance and we are in the business of saving lives.

Many union demands now call for nurse-to-patient staffing ratios and using acuities in determining these ratios. Those who say there is no need - please look through NL and see gripes about working a busy med/surg floor with 6 sick patients and spending the entire shift running. If there was no need for unions there would be no demand. See me about circulating in a Level I trauma center OR for 12 hours and not getting dinner or a pee break. If you don't work like that, bully and I am glad for you.

And if pay is the major subject, then it should be no problem for organizations to meet realistic demands. kittykatrn62 has a very strong point about lazy people. I have never worked a union nursing job. But I have worked with a ton of nurses who weren't worth the tiles they were standing on. Stupid administrative-minded supervisors, worthless charge nurses, the little cliques that the last member to join was the person who got there right before you. I could go on but I shan't. If you are experienced and not a Pollyanna you know what I mean. The others here wouldn't say poop if they had a mouth full of it.

Some people see nothing but sunshine, some see nothing but dark and gloom. Then there are those of us who see night and see day and know the difference.

Unions now.

Having been a nurse 25 years, being management, and staff. I have to say I agree with you Mr. Brown. I have been floating recently in a local hospital here, and cannot count the times I have been given 6 pts and been overwhelmed and felt my license was in jeopardy. I was just lamenting to a fellow nurse how difficult and dangerous floor nursing has become. I work harder now as a floor nurse than I ever did in my younger days. Who is there to protect me? I've considered calling for safe harbour, but I usually don't find out how bad things are until a few hours into my shift.

I'm a hard worker, and bend over backwards to deliver the care I feel my patients deserve, but at some point I feel I have to say "enough". Someone has to be a voice for us. Houston in particular seems to have no respect or regard for nurses here. The prevailing attitude is that since pay is good, we should shut-up and take anything these hospitals are willing to dish out.

Nurse John,

You are management. Of course you won't go out on strike. You CAN'T go out on strike!  And nurses striking scares you - my guess is because you can't go with them and you'd be neck deep in alligators the minute they walked.

And management not only listens but wants suggestions? How about staffing at levels that are safe for the patient and safe for the nurses' sanity, backs and licenses? Nah they already heard that suggestion. Ain't gonna happen. You guys got any other ideas that won't cost us anything? No? Oh well we tried.

10-4 rrybak. And don't rule it out too quickly. And it's more than wages as issues for those seeking union affiliation. Staffing ratios that are safe and sane are key issues.

I am new to this site, retired (maybe, depends) RN.  Actually I did retired from the state of Pensylvania.  While working for the State of PA, I belonged to the Pensylvania Nurses Association which acted as our union representative.  However, I continued to work in the private sector.  My first position was a med-surg staff nurse on the nite shift in a Vegas hospital, a unionized hospital.  The hospital floor I worked on was staffed primarily with Filipino nurses.  I am part Filipino so immediately got along with the nurses.  One day a mandatory meeting was called after our shift and I noticed the nurses were "clocking" out.  I asked them if they were staying for the meeting and they replied "yes".  Then I asked them why were clocking out?  They replied we were told to, by the nurse manager.  I was pissed, pardon my language.  I have been a Chairman of our local chapter, grievance officer and member of the PNA union and know better.. 

I informed the filipino nurses to clock back in and informed as to why.  I contacted the union representative later to meet with the nurses.  To introduce themselves and to go over what is in their contract.

The two thing I want to point our is one: Managers (even some Nurse Managers) will take advantage of the naivitivity of anyone. 

                                                           Two:  Unions should be introducing sefl to new members and go over their contract with them.

I believe in Nursing Union.  I thank the lord that I worked for the State which the PNA had negotiated a contract that allowed me to have a decent retirement and hospital benebits with prescriptions.  I would bet that those of you that do not have a union will have to work till they are 65 or more and will not get the benefits I have.  I retired with full benefits at age 55.  I supplement my income by working when I want to and for whom I want to. (and started blogging on  http://www.nursebeware.blogspot.com/)

I also believe in advocating patient ratio, no mandatory overtime, family leave, etc.  Yes, I believe that unions should strike if it is for the benefit of their patients care and to improve their working conditions. 

Darn they have no spell check on here so pardon my mispelling!  Now I think I need to write about the pros and cons of nursing unions in my blog.

nice retort got any others????? the object of a discussion is to have meaningful discourse. maybe that whole concept is lost on you??

in response to sasharose you have made quite an argument against the unions but since we are exempt from that god awful 40% tax until 2018 i will not diss them too much i mean afterall wasn't it just awesome to see those goons go into the Oval Office and walk out with what they wanted???amazing and scary

  It pains me to hear the negativity and animosity on here.  I have an opinion, I owen it, but I am not mudslinging............so the"  huh's "and the "nice recourse concerning meaningful discussions"  seem to have been lost on a one sided, and quite mean spirited comeback.  Truth is stubborn, it owes no apology to anyone.

sasharose says ...

  It pains me to hear the negativity and animosity on here.  I have an opinion, I owen it, but I am not mudslinging............so the"  huh's "and the "nice recourse concerning meaningful discussions"  seem to have been lost on a one sided, and quite mean spirited comeback.  Truth is stubborn, it owes no apology to anyone.

This is so true. Discussions in the forums can get way out of hand, but if you just state your opinion and let others state theirs, then  discussion can take place. If you disagree, tell why you disagree.

When thinking about the unions like any member group, it is only as good as the members involved in it.  Also when you do have a grievance or a problem you want to address,  you alone are going up aginst management with their lawyers and their risk management against you!.  Your unions "lobby" for you in the state and federal goverment for not only your wages and benefits but for patients care.

I am reminded over the situation I encountered regarding a treatment of a geri-psych individual with a huge ulcer on her leg.  She refused to allow us to treat her leg, cleaning and bandaging the ulcer.  She also had the behavior issue of urinating in her room and cleaning her ulcer with her urine.  She had the right to refuse treatment.  My administrator "ordered" me to clean the would with the assistant of CNAs to hold her down.  My concern was it was her right to refused and we had to come up with a more humane way of handling the situation. 

A team meeting was held with the Administrator, DON, ADON, the Medical Director and the Psychiatric Medical personnel and me, the RN in charge of the floor.  I refused to hold the elderly patient down.  I was threaten that I would lose my job.  The Administrator ordered the Medical Director to write an order for her to be held down.  Which he refused.  The Psych MD said he would not either instead would evaluate her medications and attempt to bring her behavior under control.  The point is the Administrator and DON threaten to have me fired!  If it was not for the union I would have lost my job for refusing to hold an elderly patient down!  The union not only protedted my right to refused the administrator but he also had to apologize for his behavior.

PS.  As a team we did come up with a more humane way of handling the situation and her ulcer did clear.  With the adjustment in her medication, and daily visit to her room I had established a repore with the patient.  She eventually allowed me to clean her wound.  I was also allowed to clean the urine up.  That involved getting down on my hands and knees to mop her room daily with disinfectant.  Another one of her pet peeve was no mop.  This incident is not the only incident I have encountered and each time I triumpted because I had the backing of my union, PNA (Pennsylvania Nurses Association) to thank.  http://www.nursebeware.blogspot.com

    If you knew where my sites were you would have them listed correctly.  But be that as it may, my opinion remains the same.

   My opinion is that unions do not belong in healthcare.  My opinion is that as professionals, we can & do lobby for ourselves if we so choose to be involved.

   My opinion is that a "NO STRIKE PROVISION" in your union contracts should and will happen.  Those of us that care will lobby for it.

  THE ONLY POWER A UNION HAS IS TO STRIKE.  THEY DO NOT HIRE OR FIRE YOU, THEY DO NOT PAY YOU, THEY COLLECT DUES FROM YOU.  YOU PAY THEM TO WORK FOR YOU.  AND THEY, IN TURN, ARE PAYED WELL TO DO SO.  I CAN AND DO ATTEST TO THAT.  MY ISSUE IS IF IN THIS DAY AND AGE YOU ARE UNABLE TO SPEAK FOR YOUR PROFESSION, THEN YOU HAVEN'T BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY. 

I wish I had a Union when I got sick. I was fired without any notice. My supervisor called me into her office, told me that I had been seen sleeping in a chair on the job for 5-20 minutes at a time, almost every day, over a 2 week period. So she fired me for sleeping on the job. The descriptions given to her were that I was seen sitting up in a chair with my eyes closed. I was not aware I was doing it. I was shocked and devestated. I had an MRI of my brain and lesions were found. Over the next 3 months I developed loss of balance, slight weakness in my right leg, sporadic weakness in my arms, chronic fatigue, memory lapses, sensitivity to bright light and loud or sudden noises, muscle spasticity, myoclonic jerks, sudden confusion and disorientation, and Narcolepsy which was probably why I was seen sitting upright in a chair with my eyes closed! My neurologist says I probably have MS, but I didn't have the marker in my spinal fluid, so he isn't 100% sure. I am now on disability, but it isn't enough to pay my expenses, so I am staying at my parent's house! I tried to talk to my ex supervisor to explain what was going on, but she won't return my calls or respond to my letter. If I found a job I thought I could do, who would hire me? My job history will say I was fired for sleeping while on duty as a nurse. Great recommendation!! Even if I explain the problem to human resources, why would they hire me with this health problem!! I am waiting to get help from a group that helps disabled people learn how to live indipendantly. I hope they have some good ideas!

I need a union to stand with me.