Well few, less well adjusted chatters, went and told the teacher i was not playing nice... saying I called people names.... nope......told someone to quit the Army....ironic considering I am a retired officer with 33 years honorable service....

People alledgedly  LEFT the forum because of me... and to be honest if you are not bright enough to ignore someone.... the act of clicking on a thread is, after all, voluntary.. you probably should not be on the net without parental supervision..

Well anyway, I asked for specific quotes re: the above accusations... none were forthcoming... ... and when I mentioned i had at LEAST two threads about ME... they were deleted... and I NEVER wanted that done.. it was fun toying with  the ummm.. less intellectually gifted among us who actually thought ENOUGH of me to begin SEVERAL threads dedicated to... you guessed it... ME..

I had nothing to do with those closings and I can still handle myself in a chat room.....I wait with great anticipation the next thread about ME...

SEVOFLURANE

Also there are people on here who claim to be medical professionals when they are not. For the record medical professionals are MD, RN and the associated RN role of NP. LPN, MA, CNA are NOT medical professionals. When these counterfeits are called out they whine. That is why one thread got shut down. But the counterfeit is apparently still on so there is no discrimination.

Low life, low skilled whiners. Jealous but lazy. Lazy and full of excuses.

"I have kids now I can and can't go to nursing school"

"The state says my mental problems keep me from getting a drivers license so I can't drive to nursing school"

"I'm a CMA and every bit as good as any RN"

Sometimes they need a shovel for readers. Some of that stuff gets deep.

Anonymous says ...

Also there are people on here who claim to be medical professionals when they are not. For the record medical professionals are MD, RN and the associated RN role of NP. LPN, MA, CNA are NOT medical professionals. When these counterfeits are called out they whine. That is why one thread got shut down. But the counterfeit is apparently still on so there is no discrimination.

Why is an NP a professional and a CRNA not?

Anonymous says ...

Anonymous says ...

Also there are people on here who claim to be medical professionals when they are not. For the record medical professionals are MD, RN and the associated RN role of NP. LPN, MA, CNA are NOT medical professionals. When these counterfeits are called out they whine. That is why one thread got shut down. But the counterfeit is apparently still on so there is no discrimination.

Why is an NP a professional and a CRNA not?

The author didn't say CRNA, he said CNA.  A CRNA is a certified registered nurse anesthetist.  CRNA's are a form of NP, or nurse practioner and they are indeed professionals.

CNA's are certified nursing assistants.  CNAs are not professionals.  They take a short certification course and learn the basics of bedside care.  They cannot take doctor's orders, administer medications, administer treatments, or perform any skill outside of the supervision of a licensed nurse (RN or LPN).  They do not hold a professional licensure.

Theala

Anonymous says ...

Anonymous says ...

Also there are people on here who claim to be medical professionals when they are not. For the record medical professionals are MD, RN and the associated RN role of NP. LPN, MA, CNA are NOT medical professionals. When these counterfeits are called out they whine. That is why one thread got shut down. But the counterfeit is apparently still on so there is no discrimination.

Could you post your definition of professional?

The generally accepted definition of a professional is a person who follows a vocation with a unique, specialized body of knowledge.  This knowledge can be studied by those who are not in the profession but the professional is one whose knowledge and skill exceeds that of an amateur or hobbyist.

Doctors are professionals becaue they are trained in the science of disease, and the treatment of disease.  They have a unique body of understanding and knowledge that they developed over the years that is specific to their profession.  The state recognizes this profession and protects it by requiring licensure.  You cannot call yourself a doctor if you are not a graduate of a medical school, and you cannot practice medicine unless you have a license to do so.

Lawyers are professionals.  Their specialized knowledge is the intricacies of the law.  You can read the law on your own, but unless you are trained in how to apply it, you cannot practice law.  There was once a time when anyone could "read" the law and sit the bar exam; that is no longer true.

Nurses are professionals.  We have our own specialized body of knowledge:  the care of sick persons, and the mantanence of health in the community.  Nurses must graduate an accredited nursing program and take a specialized proficiency exam, the NCLEX.  The state recognizes nurses are professionals and protects our practice by requiring licensure.  You cannot call yourself a nurse unless you are a nursing school graduate and licensed.

CNA's, CMA's and MA's are not professionals.  They are skilled workers, taught a technical trade that is skills focused not knowledge focused.  This training often takes place in vocational schools, or community colleges.  They do not have advanced degrees.  Their work must always be supervised by a licensed person (LPN, RN, or MD).  They can never practice independantly.

Theala

BTW I tried posting pictures of medical professionals but I do not know enough HTML to be able to do so without uploading them to Photobucket and embedding the tags here. If you need maybe I can post links to google images to them if that helps.

Sorry Sevo. The way you stated that I thought you were my nemesis here. The one who is not a nurse but claims to be a medical professional and resists any attempt to classify them as anything other than a medical professional.

Now if not attempting to inflame this already hot topic, I have to ask your purpose in asking for a definition supplied by any dictionary, online or in book form? But since you ask, I comply.

1.
following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.

2.
of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies.

3.
appropriate to a profession: professional objectivity.

4.
engaged in one of the learned professions: A lawyer is a professional person.

5.
following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime: a professional golfer.

6.
making a business or constant practice of something not properly to be regarded as a business: “A salesman,” he said, “is a professional optimist.”

7.
undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain: professional baseball.

8.
of or for a professional person or his or her place of business or work: a professional apartment; professional equipment.

9.
done by a professional; expert: professional car repairs.

–noun

10.
a person who belongs to one of the professions, esp. one of the learned professions.

11.
a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional.

12.
an expert player, as of golf or tennis, serving as a teacher, consultant, performer, or contestant; pro.

13.
a person who is expert at his or her work: You can tell by her comments that this editor is a real professional.

So there it is from dictionary.com
 
But let's keep it simple and relevant to the specific subject we are addressing OK? Appeasing lower level workers by making them think they are medical professionals does nothing to enhance nursing or medicine in general. Any training program or allied health program that leads any student to believe they will be medical professionals as such is lying and should be corrected officially.
 
If they want these folks to feel good about themselves and the work they do, give them "Medical Assistant Week" or the like. A free penlight and a catered dinner like we got for nurse's week. Whoopie.
 
Or send them a Hallmark greeting card.

OK so a CMA can be a professional CMA. But NOT considered a medical professional. Hell Sevo you have a RN and know better!

I stand corrected.  CRNA's are not nurse practitioners as they do not have a base of patients, do physical exams, make diagnosis, or prescribe treatments for diseases.  They are advanced practice nurses, with a Master's level education, trained to administer anesthesia under the supervision of an anesthesiologist.

 

OUCH..... Not even close to true...We can administer it INDEPENDENTLY.... but that statement is a common misconception.

Reference note #9 is from the AANA as follows:

American Association of Nurse Anesthetists (2006).

Retrieved May 23, 2007

"Nurse anesthetists work as licensed independent practitioners or work with some degree of supervision by a physician. The degree of independence or supervision varies with state law.[8] Some states use the term collaboration to define a relationship where each party is responsible for their field of expertise while maintaining open communication on anesthetic techniques. Other states require the consent or order of a physician or other qualified licensed provider to administer the anesthetic. No state requires supervision specifically by an anesthesiologist.[9]"

And I DO care whether we are considered professionals. Kudos to you on getting an A on your paper outlining why you think we are not. But I have to wonder if it was graded on the sbject instead of the style and format, as well as grammar and syntax. I also have to wonder what was grading it but then I don't much care after that point.

Not caring about being considered professionals is the kind of attitude that leads to the fractionalization of practice that has led to the mess we have now. Think it's not a mess? Watch a patients eyes when you explain the "nurse" who started an IV, gave her an injection and then took her to radiology was not a nurse at all but a tech.

Listen to patients and their families when they complain they saw a nurse just 3 times in a day and you explain they actually saw a nurse 1 time and a CNA the other 2 times. Then they want to know why they are even in a hospital if they aren't going to have a nurse take care of them. So they seem concerned.

If you do not care, that is fine. But your attitude is not that of virtually every RN I know and work with. I think the ancillary staff here needs to know that as well. They have their place and responsibilities. I appreciate the work they do. But I do not consider them medical professionals.

When it comes to fractionalization it means splitting of pay. It thus means lower pay for the nurses who went to school longer, have the most responsibility and so on - RN!!!!!

You don't care about that but I do know, as a circulator in large and in small communities, that there is a love/hate relationship between anesthesiologists and nurse anesthetists. That hasn't cut your pay or theirs.

The split on the floors does keep wages down so I do care.

If administration can make everybody believe that every level of practice is "professional" they can keep pay down. It works and they do it. The conviction needs to be on the RN side as the ancillary staff already believes they are medical professionals. Administration tries to pacify RN objections by stating every level has its responsibilities. But when push turns to shove and the crap hits the fan, guess who is responsible? THE RN! Now and always.

And if it doesn't matter, why do the lower level staff persist in it and you defend it?

It's unfair to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Or underarmed as the case may be. I guess it's "never go to a gunfight with a knife".