Okay guys...

Yet again, a healthcare reform thread has morphed into just "general rants about politics."  Let's PLEASE stay on the subject at hand.  I really don't feel like going through and deleting all these posts.

If you want to rant about politics, you are more than welcome to do so in a private group.  These political rant threads are getting too heated and too touchy for the public NursingLink forum - which is for anything RELATED TO NURSING - which general political rants are not.

Back to the subject at hand, please.

politics are the bane of our existance even in nursing i have seen totally inexperienced  but over degreed loser s get jobs that they have no business doing.  several years ago we had a director of pharmacy who decided we needed to "centralize" our pharmacy and make everything in the main which was in the basement of a 10 story hospital.Previous to this we had used satillites which are small pharmacies on every other floor of the hospital. That was so the nurse could only had to go either one floor up or one floor down to get the drugs for the patients.  The system worked great and our job as nurses was easy and the patients rarely had to wait more than 1 hour for iv meds ,drips etc  BUT braniac pharmacy boss decided to change it all despite protests from both nurses and pharmacy staff.  The wait time for stuff went to 2-4 hours and it was a mad dash down 10 flights of stairs if you needed a narcan drip or something for a code and after a year and several deaths we finally rid ourselves of the idiot.  Too bad its looking like it will be the same for us and tsa and janet n.

So the 'Christmas Eve' bill requires insurors to issue policy statements that cannot be more than FOUR pages long?  And written in a large enough font so that people can actually READ it?  Why then wasn't either the House or the Senate bill done in this format instead of a 2000-plus page jib-jab that no one voting had time to read before it was pushed to a hurry-up and let's get out of here vote on 12/25?

The answer is simple: It is the old shell game-where the bean is hidden under ONE shell while the others are moved around-a hands vs. eyes trick. Or 'smoke and mirrors' if you prefer or are allergic to nuts.

The goal here is to confuse the public as well as the majority of Congress.  What the Senate did was to 'pass' a bill with enough differences to keep the reconciliation with the House version long and complicated enough to buy time until the midterm elections and give the public a chance to remove those who would not listen to their constituents.

An effective and very cagey move on the part of the smart members of the Senate (i.e. the Southerners).

the senate is made up of term lifers and they are going to do nothing to upset their permanent till death jobs.  sadly we are stuck with their crappy decisions and selfish grabs for more power. The only power you have is your vote .  As Mr Brown said many times your lack of knowing who is being controlled by who I.E LOBBYISTS will keep you in the hole forever.  Chris Dodd owes everybody  Chec out  MedOncology group in Martha's Vineyard ....as does Ann DeParle check her out she owes everyone most interesting is Cerner the EMR king pin of them all.  Disgusting !!

I have read much of these posts with a mixture of sorrow and amazement.  Typically so many nurses seem to think that only AMA approved healthcare is the the only thing out there. I personally know and have experienced many different type of therapies which are traditional in other countries, but not done in this one.  I wanted true overhaul of our healthcare system not a "patch" job.  I would love to see more cost effective healthcare, but continuing the current status quo without incorporating some other therapies is NOT going to do the job.

The best example is using hyperbaric treatments for traumatic brain injury and stroke victims......done in other countries and decreases hospital stays and therapies needed for rehab.  I have personally seen the dramatic results in several people, but unfortunately this option is NOT open to everyone because a) You have to pay for it yourself and b) Your doctor/hospital won't tell you about it.

You nurses are well educated, but you don't think outside the box ....... I have assisted people in getting off alot of their medication through dietary change and use of herbs in their diet.  We as a group are taught/endoctrinated that the AMA is the best and we have the best healthcare in the world.  I am NO longer certain this is true.  I have learned much from my European foreign friends about what works in their countries.  WE are so full of status quo and ego that we are not even evaluating what these countries are doing which might be incredibly right.

I do agree that Congress is so full of their own self interest that they will not fix our healthcare.

Re: post made by karatheermine

I disagree that the nurses who post on this forum are not 'thinking outside of the box'.  Personally I have also seen and participated in 'unusual' treatments here in SE Georgia, USA over the past 33 years and can probably match you story for story.  I usually find that people who resort to herbs/megavitamins/acai-berry and other such snake oil remedies wind up in my Neuro ICU with full-blown hypertensive stroke/MI syndromes.  With the amount of brain damage as a result of using unregulated and unproven remedies which were ultimately ineffective however, one can usually get them to agree to use real medicine, assuming that they live through the experiment.

Regarding hyperbaric therapy-these are expensive decompression tubes which deliver oxygen under pressure and are usually found in dedicated wound treatment centers or major trauma centers which are located near the seacoast in order to treat divers for the 'bends'.  It is not without risk.  I would be profoundly cautious with head trauma patients as 02 delivered under such pressure can increase the free radical effect of the oxygen exponentially and the pressure is capable of causing blindness, TM rupture, dislodgment of clots, etc. A severely compromised patient must be monitored by an experienced RN or MD throughout the time it takes to pressurize the capsule and then decompress the patient.  Perhaps you have used this in a facility which has plenty of nurses available to have one off the unit for the length of time that this procedure requires and were lucky enough to have a retired Navy Master Chief to run the chamber.

I have never seen anyone who went abroad-usually with a terminal illness looking for a highly touted 'miracle cure'-who returned in any better condition than when they left. Yet the journals and media are FULL of accounts of patients who came here from overseas for life-saving/changing treatment.  Remember the burned boy from Iraq who was flown here and treated at NO COST to his family?  Just one of many such cases. And you probably never saw anything about the US aircraft carrier which ran lines from its reactor to the island hit so hard by the Christmas tsunami in order that power could be restored for rescue efforts.

Americans are the most altruistic people in the world.  Nobody does it better than the private sector.  Have you EVER seen an efficient government agency?  And now the liberal nuts want to run the National Health Care system by competing with private insurors.  The IRS tried to run a whorehouse/bar in Nevada back in the 1970s and went BANKRUPT. 

NOTHING as big and as critical as health care should EVER be rushed.  Neither should it be longer than War and Peace, the Websters dictionary or the Constitution.  NOBODY who voted for the damned thing even read it-they never had time before it was called to a vote.  But we shall see-midterm elections happen this Fall.  Let's see how many who would endeavour to stay in ignore/insult their constituents.

 And the American system is NOT just run by the AMA anymore since the advent of managed care in the last century. 

 i do not know of ANY doctors who would voluntarily take our medi Cal patients.  This is the gov sponsored insurance provided to the indigent and unemployed of our great state. This insurance covers nothing and indeed is very poor coverage.  This is the kind of healthcare they will be pushing onto all of these 30 million uninsured. a patch work job fix if i have ever seen one!!

my sister works for an oral surgeon and she said the people who come in with this kind of insurance are also the same ones who never(generalization) follow the pre op instructions and never(generalization) know what kinds of meds they are on and  always forget to mention that they use crystal meth or some other type of illict drugs every other day.  i said for the most part that is the kind of people they see with this kind of insurance..This type of insurance also does not cover root canals or bridges but they do cover extractions!!! how lovely ...have a  look at the teeth of the majority of europeans...not good !! of course there are always the exceptions and usually this means the pt has other type of coverage than NHS.  anyways i don't see a bunch of toothless idiots in Congress so i guess they must have the good kind of gov insurance!!  how nice for them. gov subsidized insurance will cover less and less as the beneficiaries increase every year and that is the fact. 

i pay for  premium AAA  car insurance and yes we are all required to have car insurance in this great state but bottom line i pay higher premiums because the majority are either uninsured or have crappy coverage! the law fixes nothing but generates plenty of money for the state in fines!! whoopie for the lawyers/politicians! the healthcare bill is going to do the same thing. watch and see.

So no insurance or no access to care because insurance is not accepted by MD's seems like this signs the death sentence to many people.  So who is in charge of the death panels now?  Obviously with no access to care the MD's and the hospitals and the good Christian folks on this site are deciding who lives and who dies.  I got it they are drunks or addicts or schizophrenics they are less than you the highly educated nurses on this site.  I believe a good man said, what you do for the least of us you do to me.  There are several groups on this forum saturating pages of praise to God and Jesus do all those folks feel the same as the last several posters here?  i do not judge you merely ask who gives you the right to decide who lives and who dies?  Acknowledge this is all our responsibilities in our society.  Or Acknowledge you don't give a rats a$$ about your fellow man and that is who and what you believe.  Ok fine.   But then don't have a bleeding heart for the unborn child and insist on coverage for pregnant women and babies and no abortions because those same women having those babies without insurance are probably addicts or lower income and part of the problem as you have all written about.  i am not supposing i know you, I am only reacting to what has been written on the prior 4 pages on this forum.

is this bill what the country needs no . Does it serve too many special interests yes.  Is it all we got , you bethcha!

paying the piper is the key phrase here.....and i do pay and pay and pay and now guess what due to this crappy bill i will pay some more and not just so i can continue to have insurance but  to help out those folks who cannot or WILL NOT help themselves ! this has nothing to do with religion how ridiculous to even say so!!! people are responsible for their own crappy existance and as adults i would expect us to already know that YOU can only make yourself happy and NOBODY else is responsible for you being happy!! the point is as many here have already said this bill infringes on our liberties its confusing and it generates big government which is something none of us here need! i vote no on this very poorly written piece of legislation.  too bad none of my reps agree!!

with regards to the poster who commented on the fact that doctors not accepting medi Cal patients is like having "death panels" ....weellll i read today that the ACC (cardiologists) are suing K  Sebelis the HHC sec because she used a study that used data from only 55 cardiologists and set the medicare reimbursement for cardiology procedures and tests and surgery down 40% of what it was in 2009!! they contend that to use the data from only 55 doctors is "criminal negligence" and is taking the concept of "death panels" to a new low especially since they are going to prove in court that these same physicians have interesting "back door deals" with the new healthcare bill.  Hmmm ....smells kinda like Nebraska around here!!!

I won't respond the the Alinsky BS because any cogent arguement can be twisted to fit these so called rules.  Nice try sweetie I'm not falling for the latest how to discredit the liberal/progressive or anyone who doesn't think like me game. 

I am not anti-Christian I just want all the good Christians in this country to step up and live the rules they proclaim.   I live them myself so I am not anti Christian.  I just asked a simple question of many here who are Christian and live in this Christian Nation we are told we live in several hundred times a day.

Hospitals and Docs have always picked and chosen for transplants and treatments due to prior life style choices such as drug abuse etc.  Transplant banks are dealing with a limited supply and high demand and ration the organs to those who can most benefit from them.  If the mother didn't believe in antidepressants and that is her decision maker then inshallah.  Perhaps she was hindu and believed her life would be better in the next incarnation?

I am not anti religion I am anti evangelical religion being shoved down my throat, imposed upon my life, my state, my country etc.  Believe what you want individually but do not accuse me of being less than you or ignorant because I believe otherwise.  Thank God his house has many mansions because I will be in one away from the very intolerant US population today.

As far as medicare payments being cut , my republican friends are fond of saying how the trust fund is going broke and there is not enough money for the future.  I would think you would be happy there are payment cuts so the money will last longer, but NO you are unhappy medicare spending is being reined in --confusing logic on all your parts.  You want efficiency and reduction in costs yet you get it and Holy Killing grandma Batman! you don't like it. What's a Boy wonder to do?

wing nut alert

And Yet, BO proclaimed from the mountain tops during the campaign that all of these debates would NOT go on behind closed doors.  We would see who was wheeling and dealing because he would put it on C-SPAN. 

I'm not holding my breath.  There's a whole lot of wheeling and dealing going on.  You betcha, they don't want the American people to really know what's going on behind closed doors.  So much for Sunshine.

Account Removed says ...

Usually I can see your point, Cap'n. Not this time. This is an extremely important security position in need of oversight. This is politics at its lowest. The turd happens to be a Republican as I pointed out. I did not choose his party for him. Republicans = Big Business = Fear of unions to the point of stupidity. This is absolutely not a valid point to hold up a confirmation over.

 

Ok, I try not to post much on this threats, but why did the unions with cadillac health care plans get exempt from these massive taxes for bookoo years?  Republicans?  Unions? Democrats?  They all need to go somewhere close to the Dominican Republic and pick up corpses and dig up survivors. Id go in a heartbeat but Im sort of henpecked..............wait.     My hubby wont let me go anywhere without him except for the mall and Wamart.   Whats the opposit for the opposite for henpecked?  Rooster  pecked?  Is that a word?   Where the hell did that transparancey run off to?  Wait..........it never existed.   The Republicans were always left out of the party............I hate it when that happens, especially when I get new outfit for the occasion.  Yall know those of us not in those unions will pay 40% tax exise tax..  For yall who DONT mind paying those taxes, well I DO.  Is it just me or does it look like bribery like that jerk in Nebraska and others?  

so i am one of those people who just got exempted from the 40% tax on the cadillac plan.  News to me i have a cadillac plan.  what is a cadillac healthcare plan? certainly it must be better than the hyundai plan!! i am still not happy though cuz i think its just wrong to pass legislation  behind closed doors.  i mean if the plan is so good than why do they have to bribe everyone to vote for it??? seriously if this health care overhaul or however you term it i personally would call it medicare raping and pillaging but anyways is so neccessary and "good for us" than how come is everyone holding their nose to pass it???just wonderin oh and by the way GO BROWN GO MASS you have a chance to give the kennedy seat to someone who actually works for a living and pays taxes with a REAL job !